NanciNet Digest 10-26-01
// Some lyric discussion! And some dissenting opinions. Fun.
// Enjoy! [BP
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Subject: NN: Tickets available, Royal Albert Hall
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 06:30:49 +0100
From: Barry Broomberg (barryb@veritas.com>
For personal reasons, I am unable to make use of my two remaining tickets
for the Nov 1st Royal Albert Hall Show.
They are in the middle of the 12th row. I am looking to get back my £28 per
ticket (includes the booking fee I paid.)
If any one is interested in buying them, please mail me with your phone
number so we can discuss how I get them to you ASAP.
Thanks,
Barry Broomberg
// be advised that these tickets may already be gone...[BP]
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Subject: NN: Leicester Tickets
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 07:26:02
From: "Brian Carr" (leicbri@hotmail.com>
Hi all
Due to unforeseen circumstances, I'm sad to say that I won't be attending
Nanci's eagerly anticipated performance at De Montfort Hall in Leicester on
Tuesday 30th at 8pm. Consequently, I have two tickets which I would like to
give to a good home.
Cost price is £24.50 each (row H, middle - tiered seating). I'm happy to
let go of them for £20 each.
Email me if interested - ASAP, so I can post them to you, OR can arrange to
have them at reception for collection on the night.
Thanks
Brian
// ditto on the earlier caveat...[BP]
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Subject: NN: Just in time for winter
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 14:03:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Page (bpage3@yahoo.com>
Good afternoon, y'all,
Been lots of clamor about the song, "Shaking Out the Snow," from the new CD
(WHAT? You didn't know? Yeah, Nanci's got a new CD out!). I've been listening
to it, and can understand the objections that some have to the tone and the
musicality of the song...but it's obvious that Nanci's approaching it that
way on purpose, so I won't argue too much about that.
But the song itself certainly fits into Nanci's body of work, as perhaps the
culmination of a theme she has returned to often: the image of cold as it
relates to not loving/being loved.
She's used this imagery for years. Remember the line in "You Can't Go Home
Again"?
But you cannot save your past for today
It will leave you cold on an outbound train
And in "Love Found a Shoulder"
Now, here I am standin' in the cold winter rain
if hearts were of wool I'd be warm
I've known some kind hearts and I've touched a few
though I never claim one for my own
And in "I Don't Wanna Talk About Love" she says,
[Love]comes dressed in its summer clothes
When you're traveling through the heart
of the winter's cold
One of my favorite usages of this is in "Anything You Need"
You had the very heart of me in your hands with honesty
You rolled it up within your sleeve like a beacon
Then you left it out
In the cold and the rain
So now we come to "Shaking Out the Snow," where she takes the glimpses she's
given us of this metaphor and lets it all hang out:
Snowing - I am shaking out the snow
Oh, the cold that is within my heart
I'm gonna shake out all that snow
...
Out into the snow to catch this cold I cannot shake
...
Snowing - yeah, it snows in Tennessee
The place where I now make my life
Is still snowing down on me I'd prefer Antarctica
Perhaps the land of Enderby
Where the weather is my heart and I'm closer to the sea
Since I cannot ever seem to shake the snow Out of me
Complain about the music and the presentation if you will, but lyrically
Nanci has used this song to greatly expand on one of her longest-running
themes. For my money, that makes this an important contribution to the
collection.
Bill "let's talk lyrics" Page
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Subject: Re: NN: Just in time for winter
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 15:41:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Reid Mitchell (reidmitchell@yahoo.com>
Bill Page wrote:
> But the song itself certainly fits into Nanci's body
> of work, as perhaps the
> culmination of a theme she has returned to often:
> the image of cold as it
[snip]
Dear Bill:
You're right on target with this particular image.
One more comes to mind, from "This Heart."
"This heart was stranded in the winter
Stuck out in a blizzard in it's summer clothes "
(Or as I infamously sang it once, "Stuck out in a
blizzard wearing seersucker.")
A couple of thoughts or questions:
1. While Nanci is currently making light of the
childhood incident described in "Shaking out the
Snow," could this incident be the reason she's
repeatedly drawn to the image? Or is this question
merely an open invitation to psychobabble and front
parlor psychiatry?
2. I think this image and the song "Shaking Out the
Snow" is crucially related to the title song of the
cd, "Clock Without Hands." The preference expressed
at the end to be somewhere even colder (Enderby)
suggests that the singer is not exactly committed to
"shaking out the snow" but also views the cold as a
kind of emotional protection--better cold than hurt.
And that seems to me to be the attitude analyzed in
"Clock Without Hands."
Reid Mitchell in New Orleans where it snows about once
a decade which is still far too often
N.p. Nanci Griffith "Shaking Out the Snow"
next up. Mike West, "Snow in New Orleans"
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Subject: Re: NN: Just in time for winter
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 13:50:25 +0000
From: "John Courtney" (jc_riselaw@hotmail.com>
Reid Mitchell wrote:
>1. While Nanci is currently making light of the
>childhood incident described in "Shaking out the
>Snow," could this incident be the reason she's
>repeatedly drawn to the image? Or is this question
>merely an open invitation to psychobabble and front
>parlor psychiatry?
Probably :-) It could also be that the incident, while fairly trivial in
itself, somehow represents all the little betrayals of trust throughout
childhood that combine to start to freeze over the soul. Perhaps the
earliest in her memory?
>2. I think this image and the song "Shaking Out the
>Snow" is crucially related to the title song of the
>cd, "Clock Without Hands." The preference expressed
>at the end to be somewhere even colder (Enderby)
>suggests that the singer is not exactly committed to
>"shaking out the snow" but also views the cold as a
>kind of emotional protection--better cold than hurt.
>And that seems to me to be the attitude analyzed in
>"Clock Without Hands."
A very good point. For all the "give them a cup of tea and take them to a
karaoke bar" (Nanci's recommended cure for "atrophy of the heart" - worth a
try), there seems to be a deep ambivalence at the centre of this song - and
elsewhere on CWH. It's no bad thing, part of the richness and complexity of
this work.
Also, "The Kimbros" (kimbroj@charter.net> asked:
>we know Nanci has a sister, she used to be on the list,
>does she have a brother?
She certainly says she does and I see no reason to disbelieve her! She
talked about him very affectionately - at considerable length - the other
night. "A very big guy", apparently.
Cheers
John - the *Sun* is actually shining here, glinting very prettily off the
puddles.....
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Subject: Re: NN: Just in time for winter
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 01:08:35 -0400
From: "The Kimbros" (kimbroj@charter.net>
Reid babbled:
> 1. While Nanci is currently making light of the
> childhood incident described in "Shaking out the
> Snow," could this incident be the reason she's
> repeatedly drawn to the image? Or is this question
> merely an open invitation to psychobabble and front
> parlor psychiatry?
Hey, I'm always up for that! (Moving into the front parlor where the
high-back velvet chairs look a little dusty against the faded Persian rug
and where I don't know the people in the pictures over the fireplace.> Has
any enterprising journalist asked her about this? It reminds me of Gary
Larson's story of how his brother would lock him in the "monster invested
basement" where he would have to occasionally go to get firewood. To his
horror, at the bottom of the stairs the lights would go out and he'd race up
the stairway in the darkness only to find the door held shut and his brother
on the other side chanting "it's coming for you Gary, it's coming up the
stairs." Hence we have thousands of warped FAR SIDE cartoons to entertain
us.
-First question, we know Nanci has a sister, she used to be on the list,
does she have a brother?
-Second question... does it snow in Texas?
Well, my brother snuck up behind me once and hit me over the head with a
Tonka truck. It also made an impression I'll always keep, or maybe I should
say a dent! I remember basic training, Ft. Dix, New Jersey, staring from
the barber chair at my freshly shaved head and all the terrors of my
childhood flooding my memories as I counted each scar I never knew I had!
All my best,
-Shawn "Psychobabble-R-Us" Kimbro
http://mountainsoul.cjb.net
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Subject: Re: NN: Just in time for winter
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 10:06:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Page (bpage3@yahoo.com>
Shawn asked:
> -First question, we know Nanci has a sister, she used to be on the list,
> does she have a brother?
A brother and his family are mentioned in the liner notes of CWH.
> -Second question... does it snow in Texas?
Yes.
Not a lot, and not everywhere, but yes.
Especially up on the high plains (say, near Lockney).
It snows much less frequently in the Austin area, but it does do so there,
occasionally.
In 1976, in Abilene, Texas, we got an early snow (late October or early
November), before the leaves had changed at all. It was really weird to see
the green leaves on top of the four inches of (very wet) snow.
Bill "you want trivia? I got it for you" Page
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Subject: Re: NN: Let's talk lyrics
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 17:55:12 EDT
From: ConorMG@aol.com
I think 'Shaking Out the Snow ' is one of the most
exciting things Nanci has ever done. It lifts her
from someone who can sound samey, bland, safe,
pleasant, pretty and so on (which are some of the
reactions of people I've played her to) to someone
who moves on, takes risks, experiments, subverts,
shocks, provokes and so on.
Personally, I love the samey, pretty, etc music,
but I well understand the preference for the other styles.
In fact that is one of the things I like most about her:
that she keeps doing different things. I am very much
from the tradition that loves her earliest folk singing,
but I feel invigorated and excited by the different things
she has done more recently. All good singers move on and
move us on. They even make public mistakes.
But that goes with the territory of trying for greatness.
'Shaking Out the Snow' is weird, in the way much good
art is weird: it chafes at our predictability, it grates,
it rebels, it kicks. I find the woman fascinating, so I ask
what it is that she is alluding to here, and it is not in
me to condemn, more to find out. What I don't yet understand
is why she doesn't bear a grudge against that brother who
started off that terrible mistrust. What do other people
think is behind the rage or anguish of the singing here?
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Subject: NN: CWH is not good
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 12:52:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: todd williams (towengmjr@yahoo.com>
I'm sure no one wants to hear this, but after owning
it for several months now--I didn't want to be rash in
my judgment--I still think Clock Without Hands is an
extremely disappointing album. I didn't like it when
I first got it and it hasn't grown on me. Sorry
Nanci, I love every other album you've made, even some
of the less popular ones, but this one I just can't
get into. In fact I find it very hard to believe that
anyone likes this album. To me it's obviously her
worst. Among its many flaws are its trite lyrics and
song topics, I mean Vietnam, c'mon. Nanci's voice,
which I usually love, sounds extremely strained at
times. The production doesn't help matters. Even the
covers are poorly chosen. Aren't some of you
Nanci-netters maybe giving this album a bit too much
credit because you don't want to admit that Nanci has
done the unthinkable and made a bad album. There's no
shame in it. Every great musician has made at least
one or two. No great artist can be great all the
time. I mean, even Shakespeare wrote Titus
Andronicus.
Anyway, that's my two-cents worth. Feel free to
chastise and vilify me as you will.
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Subject: Re: NN: CWH is not good
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 14:02:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bill Page (bpage3@yahoo.com>
Hey, Todd,
Don't hold back! Tell us how you really feel! :)
Fact is, almost every album that Nanci has released has had both admirers
and detractors. I liked BRFTM a lot better than most folks, haven't been
grabbed by OVOR2. I really doubt that NanciNetters would say they like the
release if they really don't (THIS BUNCH? YA GOTTA BE KIDDING!)
I find much of CWH to be right up there with some of Nanci's best work.
I like the title song, I like "Traveling...", "Midnight..."
I'm still working on "Roses."
As I wrote yesterday, I think SOTS is right in line with much of her
earlier work (and I think she sang it exactly the way she wanted to do).
And "Last Song for Mother" is so personal it hurts, and is the natural
successor to "Goodnight to a Mother's Dream."
Of the covers (nearly half of the album!), I'm kinda fond of "Cotton" and
"Where Would I Be" (both of which could have been written by Nanci), and
since my first love musically is jazz standards, I enjoy "In the Wee Small
Hours."
But I could do without "Lost Him in the Sun."
So you see, Todd, not everyone simply accepts the CD out of blind loyalty.
Bill "I wonder how she'd do on some Gershwin" Page
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Subject: Re: NN: CWH is not good
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 13:13:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Reid Mitchell (reidmitchell@yahoo.com>
todd williams wrote:
> I mean Vietnam, c'mon
Uh, why is Vietnam inherently a bad topic for a song?
I don't think that anybody here will vilify you for
not liking the album but we'll be tempted to vilify
you for implying everybody who says they like CWH
secretly hate it and that we're therefore lying.
Reid Mitchell
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Subject: Re: NN: CWH is not good
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 15:16:42 -0500
From: Sarah Wrightson (sarahwrightson@vincebell.com>
todd williams wrote:
>
> Nanci has
> done the unthinkable and made a bad album.
No vilification, Todd. Nothing we think - when in fact we've given
something some real thought - is wrong. In the same sense, I don't think
good artists can make "bad" art. They are striving toward something,
perhaps very far out of reach...sometimes its gathered in and sometimes
elusive. I know I've said it before, but our artists are our road maps
and show us the way into uncharted waters (okay, okay, so trite language
on my part (g>). Always uncharted to them as well, yet they are braver
than we, taking those Paul Tillich leaps of faith (geesh, now she's
mixing her trites). The exploration is the all, for all of
us...sometimes it just doesn't quite get you there, though it has
others. But it can't be "bad"...its already made us think in new ways.
That (whatever I was trying to say) and the fact that only great art
creates people who love and who don't love it. Mediocre stuff comes
from the lowest common denominator so that we can all enjoy.
Cate Whittington will translate :-)))
Sarah
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Subject: NN: FW: CWH is not good
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 15:24:32 -0500
From: "Kaczmarczyk, Peter A" (pkaczmar@indiana.edu>
Sure, Nanci has made a bad album, it was called Blue Roses from the
Moons. I had no problem giving constructive criticism to that album when it
came out. CWH, however, I find a much stronger album with better quality
song selection, vocal style and stylization, and approach to the material in
terms of sound and production. Could you be more specific in your comments?
What's trite about Vietnam? Where does the production fail? Where, besides
Shaking out the Snow (where it fits the song IMO) do you find the vocals
strained? I have no problem with you criticizing Nanci, but your criticism
don't leave much to discuss because of the vagueness of them.
Peter K.
www.hungersite.com - Visit Every Day!
Now playing - Abulum - Glen Phillips
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