// Another whole digest of discussion...kewl...
// Enjoy!  [BP

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Subject: NN: CWH is good
   Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 11:43:42 -0500
   From: "Chevelle" (chevelle@pnx.com>

Happy Saturday Morning, fellow Nancinetters!
  On this sunny cool weekend morning, I am catching up on email-reading 
and am somewhat amused by some of the things said about Nanci's newest 
album.  And I am thankful that there is such a diverse group of folks 
who gather and talk about a pretty good artist named Nanci.  We couldn't 
do this under the Taliban.
  My musical collection contains many albums and I can't say that I like 
every song on an album.  Some of them are good for one or two songs, 
others I like to listen all the way through and don't mind a couple of 
less-than-interesting songs.  And my old Phillips 212 turntable has 
developed an annoying crackle in the right channel, making me turn to 
the CDs and tapes more until I get the turntable fixed.  It's probably 
corrosion on a connection, since we're not far from the Gulf of Mexico.
  I can't say I like all the songs on Nanci's albums but I don't mind 
listening to the ones I don't really understand or if the arrangement of 
the song doesn't hit my ear very well.  I've been trying to learn how to 
play guitar for several years and never seem to get anywhere.  My skills 
seem to be with using computers, woodworking and automotive repair, so I 
shouldn't feel deprived, but I am always amazed and awed by people who 
can play and sing music of any kind.  Some friends I've known for years 
meet each Saturday night and play some great rock 'n roll and jazzy  
stuff.  I ought to record some of their better moments and put some 
sound clips up for people to enjoy.  They just play for the fun of it 
and the sheer joy of playing.  Our little group of fans sit outside the 
music room, enjoying brews and BBQ while they band fills the air with 
both covers of popular songs and some original compositions.  Sometimes 
we fans just look at each other, slack jawed in amazement, when the band 
gets into a groove and trade solos.  Where does that stuff come from?  
Where do they get their knowledge and inspiration?  What leads them into 
the riffs and rhythms and subtle chops behind the main melodies?  I 
don't think even they know, they just do it.  On the liner notes of the 
late John Hartford's milestone album, "Aereoplain", he wrote that he was 
listening to the band start a song and looked down and discovered that 
his hands were busy at the music and he felt like two eyeballs floating 
above it all. 
  The gift of playing and writing and singing music is so wonderful that 
I can't criticize anything more than saying it's not my favorite, but 
it's all right.  Well, maybe rap will get a big boo. 
  Starting from the time I first saw Nanci on Austin City Limits back in 
1986,  I've bought all her albums and listened to them quite a lot.  At 
home through the speakers, at work through the headphones, in the car, 
all times of enjoyment of Nanci's artistry.  (dang, I better wrap this 
up.  Caron needs to mop the floor in here.)
  Sure, not all songs will please everyone.  Such is the diversity of 
the human race.  There is surely a few songs on any given album of 
Nanci's that please the listener, and that's what brings this group of 
Nanci-netters together.  I like the songs on CWH and realize that some 
of the songs are personal and some subjects are near and dear to our 
aNGel's heart.  To paraphrase some famous saying which I can't remember 
the original context -- "our aNGel, right or wrong!".

  I made a tape of several songs that were sort of spiritual and by 
artists that don't normally do lots of gospel.  One of the songs was 
"Somebody's Coming" by Todd Snider, another was "Crown of Creation" by 
Stephen Bruton, and I of course included Nanci's "Gulf Coast Highway" 
and "Heaven".  I gave the tape to my sister-in-law, who is caring for my 
brother who has lung and bone cancer and is getting worse each day.  We 
hope he makes it through this, but we at least hope he makes it to 
Christmas.  He is on morphine to ease the pain and needs constant care.  
I asked my sister-in-law to listen to "Gulf Coast Highway" and know that 
we're thinking of them.  So could I humbly ask that you kind folks get 
out the LLA album and play GCH for my brother and his wife?    

Thanks.  

Hank "need just one miracle" Van Slyke

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Subject: NN: CWH: still don't like it
   Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 18:46:47 -0700 (PDT)
   From: todd williams (towengmjr@yahoo.com>

>I have no problem with you criticizing Nanci, 
>but your criticism (sic) don't leave much to discuss
>because of the vagueness of them.

Fair enough Peter.  
Let me put it this way.  Nanci's best work, as with
all great art, gives one the sense, whether true or
not, of pouring out of her soul, so to speak.  So that
when the expression of emotion, whether it be pain,
joy, whatever, is passed on to the receiver is felt to
be not only genuine, but also personal and yet primal
or universal on a human level.  For instance, even a
song like "Everything's Coming up Roses," which I'll
admit is light in substance, expresses emotion that
the artist, Nanci, brings across as genuine.  I feel,
as a listener, that it is coming out of her at a
primal level.  Now take a song like "It's a Hard Life
Wherever You Go."  While I believe the chorus has that
primal quality, the verses strike me as being purely,
cerebrally contrived.  As if Nanci had the chorus and
then said, okay one verse about Northern Ireland since
it's a hard life there, one about racism because that
certainly makes life hard, etc.  Many of the songs on
CWH strike me the same way.  "Gee, I really like the
title of that Carson McCuller novel, maybe I'll write
a song with that very same title," (incidentally, I
think of CWH as more of, or originally, an Ingmar
Bergman allusion anyway (see Wild Strawberries)).  As
far as Vietnam, (and I'm not sure why I even have to
explain why Vietnam is a trite topic-it's been done to
death) it has become a kind of weighty artistic
signifier that inhibits original and what I'm calling
"primal" artistic expression.  What I mean is that it
carries so much meaning now, because of all that has
already been done with it artistically and because of
all that we know of it historically (not to mention
those who lived through it and/or were directly
affected by it), that it overwhelms anything that an
artist could do to express themselves in terms of it
in a meaningful way.  Probably my least favorite Iris
Dement song is the "Wall in Washington" because the
topic holds so much weight that the artist gets lost. 
It doesn't come across as genuine to me.  It is as if
the artist said, "Vietnam is an important topic that
means a great deal to me and a lot of other people, so
I think I'll write a song about it."  Again, this is
cerebrally contrived.  Ditto with Pearl's Eye View;
"Dickey Chapelle is an interesting person, I should
write a song about her."  Ditto Armstrong.  
Anyway, I'll stop on that subject before I start
quoting Nietzche and T.S. Eliot.  I'm not sure if the
above is any less vague, but you try coming up with a
personal artistic aesthete on demand.  

As with covers, on a similar note, great covers are
those that the artist can make their own.  Billy
Holiday was probably the best at this.  Margo Timmons
used to be great at it.  I think the brilliance of the
first OV album is due to this (especially "Morning
Song for Sally"), and perhaps the failure, if it is
indeed that, of the second one is due to Nanci's
inability to achieve that on many of the tracks.  You
can either hear the singer surrendering their inner or
primal being to the song, or you can't.  On the covers
on CWH, I can't.  Again, still pretty vague, but I
suspect most people know what I'm talking about 

> only great art creates people who love and who don't
> love it. Mediocre stuff comes from the lowest common
> denominator so that we can all enjoy.

Sarah, I couldn't agree more.  That's what makes a
discourse on Nanci possible.  That's why there is no
Brittany Spears-Net.  Actually there probably is one,
scary to imagine though.   

>I don't think that anybody here will vilify you for
>not liking the album but we'll be tempted to vilify
>you for implying everybody who says they like CWH
>secretly hate it and that we're therefore lying. 

Gee Reid, do you think that maybe you could twist my
words around a little bit more.  What are you a lawyer
or something.
Sorry, that last one was uncalled for on my part.
But please read more carefully, and you may want to
cut back on the coffee: 

"I find it very hard to believe that anyone likes this
album. To me it's obviously her worst."

Notice the subjective tone I maintain by using the
first person singular. 

"Aren't some of you Nanci-netters maybe giving this
album a bit too much credit because you don't want to
admit that Nanci has done the unthinkable and made a
bad album."

Notice the phrase, "some of you," used by me, which is
a striking contradiction to the phrase, "everybody who
says they like CWH," used by you.  Also notice the
word "maybe" in my post, which shows that I am merely
speculated, and that I am quite aware of that fact.

Now I sound like a lawyer, huh.  Anyway, I won't take
it personal if you won't.
 
>since my first love musically is jazz standards, I
>enjoy "In the Wee Small Hours." I wonder how she'd do
>on some Gershwin" 

Bill, I think that song is okay by Nanci, but I really
like the jazzy "Drops in the Faucet" on DBS.  I love
jazz too, and I think it's interesting, if not always
completely enjoyable, how Nanci is showing her jazz
influence on the last two albums.  How about the Billy
Holiday allusion on "Pre-War Kimble" that I'm not sure
how many people caught.

>'Titus Andronicus' is a very interesting play.......!

Yes it is Conor.  It is certainly very interesting. 
Actually, that was really more of a semi-esoteric joke
on my part.  I doubt many people, even those who like
Shakespeare, have actually read it, and I'm not sure I
would recommend it.  It's really a big mess, and
certainly not a great poetic success.  But it's
interesting no doubt, if for no other reason than the
fact that the same mind who created King Lear, Hamlet,
and Macbeth, also created it.  

I'm going to bed now.  Thanks for all the responses.

Todd

=====
Anything can happen; everything is possible and probable.  
Time and space do not exist; on a slight groundwork of reality, 
imagination spins and weaves new patterns made up of memories, 
experiences, unfettered fancies, absurdities and improvisations.
-August Strindberg

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Subject: NN: My 2 cents worth
   Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 10:42:07 -0400
   From: Bucky (bucky314@home.com>

I've heard Nanci and the BMO in a New Orleans honky tonk, next to a 
Colorado mountain stream, inside a snow covered theater in Madison, WI, 
under the stars with an orchestra at a Kentucky Zoo, plus a few other 
venues across the USA.

Most of the time I've heard her and the group resonating from a set of 
speakers in my living room, and it's all good!  

Some songs sound better than others, but it's all good!  

Some are outstanding, but it's all good!

If you have a problem with a song here and there, fast forward past the 
offending tune....but it's your loss.  Nanci's audio portfolio is broad 
enough to satisfy anyone, (even my sister with the tin ear that has a 
Tiny Tim '45' stashed between  Neil Sedaka and Gene Pintney rock and 
roll classics.)

I'm satisfied with every release in my Griffith collection.  Together 
they paint an expanding vision of life through the eyes of one a 
America's great singer/songwriters.  

If the next release is a musical collection of Martha Stewart recipes or 
Bob Vila's home repair tips, I'll be in line at the local  retailer to 
buy a copy and play it all day long.  It's all good!

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Subject: Re: NN: CWH is not good
   Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 11:54:15 EDT
   From: Catelaw@aol.com

sarahwrightson@vincebell.com writes:

> That (whatever I was trying to say) and the fact that only great art
> creates people who love and who don't love it.  Mediocre stuff comes
> from the lowest common denominator so that we can all enjoy.
>  
> Cate Whittington will translate :-)))
  
Sarah doesn't need a translator...but I do have some things to say about
this thread, although not right now.

Too much Vince Bell anticipation in my brain for tonight -- for anyone
within
driving distance of Auburn, AL (and as Steve R. has kindly noted, the War 
Eagles are out of town) should get themselves hence for one fair autumn 
evening of musical carpe diem.  I think most of you have seen Nanci's quote 
(paraphrasing here) to the effect that of all the Texas singer/songwriters 
of their youth, Vince was the best.  This quote, although I can't at this 
moment fix its origin, has recently been published on another list.  
According to reliable sources, Nanci has said,
"Vince could go out with just a guitar and open for ZZ Top."

Eh?  

But I am confused when Todd (I think?) writes:

>So that
>when the expression of emotion, whether it be pain,
>joy, whatever, is passed on to the receiver is felt to
>be not only genuine, but also personal and yet primal
>or universal on a human level.

and then attributes IT to "Everything's Coming Up Roses" but can't
hear it in "Shaking Out the Snow."  I like both of these CDs and songs,
but will have to expound later.

Cate, in Atlanta

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Subject: Re: NN: CWH is not good
   Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 11:21:51 -0700 (PDT)
   From: todd williams (towengmjr@yahoo.com>

>But I am confused when Todd (I think?) writes:
>>So that when the expression of emotion, whether it be pain,
>>joy, whatever, is passed on to the receiver is felt to
>>be not only genuine, but also personal and yet primal
>>or universal on a human level.>
>and then attributes IT to "Everything's Coming Up Roses" but can't
>hear it in "Shaking Out the Snow."  

Actually, I would agree that "Shaking out the Snow"
does have that quality.  But I also think that it's
painful to listen to Nanci's voice on that song in
particular.  Her high notes sound a bit shaky (if
that's the word) to my ear on a lot of the album, but
on that song especially.  Some people are saying that
the strained voice is appropriate, but I suppose that
maybe there are times when running ones fingers down a
chalk board is an appropriate action, it still doesn't
sound good.  I also think that the verse about her
brother locking her outside is very awkward lyrically.
It sounds poetically forced to me.

So my attempt at objectively intellectualizing this
stuff is not full-proof.  I'm not suprised.  Really
this stuff comes down to how it strikes a person on
several levels including, but probably not limited to,
emotional, intellectual, and, of course, on a simply
aural level (which in itself certainly relates to the
other levels), which makes it difficult to define at
all, and probably impossible to define in a way that
would make it universal.  But that won't stop me from
trying.  

I actually kind of like "Midnight in Missoula," which
strikes me as genuine and pretty at the same time. 
Also, "The Ghost Inside of Me" is kind of catchy as a
cover, yet I'm not sure if Nanci is completely into
it, so it wouldn't necessarily fit my criteria for a
great cover.  I also wouldn't put these two up there
with her best stuff, and I still maintain that her
voice sounds a bit off to me even on these two.  

Please excuse my lack of vocabulary when speaking of
musical specifics.  Please excuse that and my
seemingly endless contradictions.  Though, I don't
think there is anything wrong with contradicting and
revising oneself.  A lot of people who are more
important and intellegent than myself have and
continue to do it all the time.    
 
I'm out,

Todd    

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Subject: Re: NN: CWH is not good
   Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 22:33:56 -0400
   From: kenn lippert (lippert@nauticom.net>

>--- todd williams (towengmjr@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I still think Clock Without Hands is an
>> extremely dissapointing album.  (snip>
>> Anyway, that's my two-cents worth.  Feel free to
>> chastise and vilify me as you will.   

What?!? Does Nanci have a new album out?!?  Maybe i should try and 
listen to it or maybe even buy it i guess.  Since the first snow 
flakes of the year fell here today in western Pennsylvania, maybe 
it's time i heard "Shaking Out the Snow" (Are you all sure this isn't 
a song about being hopped up on coke like that drug crazed "crack" 
song from OVOR?)

Todd,  no vilification here, some vivisection maybe, but not 
vilification.  And chastisement, i don't think there is any 
chasteness here on NN either.  Hey i was the one who got flamed to 
cinders for asking how old Dave Van Ronk was when he sang on OVOR 2 
("Highlander" - "There can be only one", "Highlander II" - "There 
should have been only one, i want my money back").  Except for a few 
exceptional tracks ("Dress of Laces", "Darcey Farrow", maybe a couple 
more) i think OVOR 2 was pretty embarrassing.  I forgive "Blue Roses" 
because i listen to that in  the context of Nanci's illness and 
consider it more a tribute to her band than a musical statement.

And although i agree that artists make many statements, and sometimes 
they are just "beyond" my present or future understanding, i don't 
think that means that it is impossible for them to just miss 
sometimes.  Jeez, just look at Ishtar.  It must be awfully hard to 
make a cohesive, coherent album when it the songs are written and 
recorded over such long periods of time.  I heard a rather 
forgettable singer at church last Sunday (the guy from Second Chapter 
of Acts for you old Jesus freaks), and for one song he talked about 
how it took him three years to write one it (which was unusual for 
him, he whipped most of them out in a day (you could tell>), but that 
the song that took three years really gave him an opportunity to see 
himself change and grow throughout the interval.  I know that Nanci 
and others, routinely spend years working on songs.  How hard it must 
be to keep a focus and a vision for so long.  And when one is so 
intimately close to a work, how easy it must be to lose perspective. 
How hard it must be to know what is really meaningful, what is 
attractive to the ear, what will reach people.  Songwriting geniuses 
like Nanci or Kate Campbell are able to do it consistently, on many 
levels, and over many subjects.  But sometimes, (i think> the work 
becomes imbued with a life of its own, and resists the artist's 
objective critique.  Sometimes the result is revolutionary genius, 
sometimes it is crap.  I am afraid that Nanci is either moving beyond 
me, losing her perspective, or just not caring anymore; because the 
number of songs that truly speak to me are getting fewer and fewer on 
each album (i am afraid to get CWH now).  Perhaps it is like Bela 
Fleck and the Flecktones, i just don't get it.  I hope so , because i 
would hate to see Nanci stop caring and end up in Branson Missouri.

I appreciate you sharing your honest opinion Todd.  There are a few 
starry eyed Nanci fans on this list, but for the most part it is 
comprised of music lovers who are not afraid to identify drivel when 
they hear it.  Of course one man's drivel is another man's floor.

kenn
-- 

| kenn lippert
| lippert@nauticom.net
|
| "Reach me down my Tycho Brahe,  I would know him when we meet...
|  Though my soul may set in darkness, it will rise in perfect light;
|  I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night."
|                                             -Sarah Williams
| "See Kate Campbell"  http://www.KateCampbell.com
|
| "The moon, the music, and me."
|      -Vince Bell "Texas Plates"

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Subject: Re: NN: CWH is not good
   Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 15:25:18 +0000
   From: "John Courtney" (jc_riselaw@hotmail.com>

kenn lippert (lippert@nauticom.net> wrote:

>Except for a few
>exceptional tracks ("Dress of Laces", "Darcey Farrow", maybe a couple
>more) i think OVOR 2 was pretty embarrassing.  I forgive "Blue Roses"
>because i listen to that in  the context of Nanci's illness and
>consider it more a tribute to her band than a musical statement.
>
>...I am afraid that Nanci is either moving beyond
>me, losing her perspective, or just not caring anymore; because the
>number of songs that truly speak to me are getting fewer and fewer on
>each album (i am afraid to get CWH now).

FWIW, my thoughts on BRFTM and OV2 are much the same as yours - I also think

DBS little more than something nice to listen to while doing the ironing - 
but I really like CWH.

I see what Todd is saying. It is cerebral and consciously crafted but that's

part of what I enjoy: following the thematic links and references. Nanci's 
earlier albums were often likened to short story collections, CWH seems to 
me more like a novel (as does Flyer - in a slightly different way).

But the key to it, IMO, is the vocals - which many people seem to dislike. 
They certainly are different (even apart from SOTS) and took a bit of 
getting used to. However, it was the voice that eventually grabbed me and 
pulled me inside. All of a sudden there was warmth, depth, emotion and 
meaning. Quite a revelation. Since then, I've played it frequently and 
really cannot understand the previous objections.

Just a thought.
John.

Disclaimer: Any opinions contained in this e-mail are those of an individual

who will very likely have had "at least one glass of red wine" today and who

has been accused of being unable to tell a twelve-bar blues from a five-bar 
gate. No liability of any sort is accepted.

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Subject: Re: NN: CWH is not good
   Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 16:35:38 -0500
   From: Steve Robertson (stever@mindspring.com>

John Courtney at jc_riselaw@hotmail.com wrote:
 
> kenn lippert (lippert@nauticom.net> wrote:
> 
>> ..... I am afraid that Nanci is either moving beyond
>> me, losing her perspective, or just not caring anymore;

> pulled me inside. All of a sudden there was warmth, depth, emotion and
> meaning. Quite a revelation.

The nature of the folks that post on this list has changed as much as Nanci
has over the last few years. These days, messages are more likely to talk
about Nanci's "warmth" or "sensitivity" or her ability to evoke "emotions".
Y'all are making Nanci sound like the musical equivalent of the "Love
Stories" channel on tv. In American music- as I see it- these qualities are
most likely to be found in the Northeastern (New York to Boston)
singer/songwriters. The performers who call themselves "folk singers" even
though they clearly belong in the pop category.

Let's look at the big picture. The Nanci that I became a fan of is a Texas
musician, and Texas musicians have distinctive qualities. Nanci belongs in
the same group as Eric Taylor, Guy and Susannah Clark, Townes, Lyle Lovett
and Vince Bell. Poets all, but warmth, sensitivity, and related emotions are
not usually part of their pallette. They shoot for truth, and hang the
sensitivity. IMHO, Nanci only disappoints me when she seems to be moving
towards the pop category. That means my least favorite albums are "Storms",
LNGH, BRFTM, and CWH. I thought OVOR II was just as good as OVOR- especially
the video version. Great concert from Glasgow!
-- 
>From the Georgia Pines,
Steve Robertson

====================================
_________Fiddlin' Around____________
The Journal of American Roots Music  on the web at
      http://www.starchart.com/
====================================




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Subject: Re: NN: CWH is not good
   Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 18:50:11 -0600
   From: Sarah Wrightson (sarahwrightson@vincebell.com>

Steve Robertson wrote:
> The nature of the folks that post on this list has changed as much as
Nanci
> has over the last few years. These days, messages are more likely to talk
> about Nanci's "warmth" or "sensitivity" or her ability to evoke
"emotions".
> Y'all are making Nanci sound like the musical equivalent of the "Love
> Stories" channel on tv. In American music- as I see it- these qualities
are
> most likely to be found in the Northeastern (New York to Boston)
> singer/songwriters. 

While I agree with your later comments about Texas writers, I think I
don't agree with the "touchy-feelie" writers being from the east coast
-- a lot of innovative music comes from there, sometimes more political
and sardonic.

The more I think about it, the warm sensitive music is usually limited
to the mediocre, anywhere (g>

Sarah W.

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Subject: Re: NN: CWH is not good
   Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 22:15:29
   From: "Todd Barrett" (astrocity@hotmail.com>

Steve wrote:

>IMHO, Nanci only disappoints me when she seems to be moving
>towards the pop category. That means my least favorite albums are "Storms",
>LNGH, BRFTM, and CWH. I thought OVOR II was just as good as OVOR- 
>especially
>the video version. Great concert from Glasgow!

I don't have time for a well reasoned response here (currently at work...not

that I can ever give any real reasoned response when it concerns music) but 
I am reminded about a time around the release of Storms and a friend/record 
store employee asked me what I thought about Nanci's new one...I replied 
that she was sliding.  I thought that she was losing her audience with this 
Pop stuff...I am pretty sure that I was wrong and she was probably selling 
more and more records...but she lost "me" for a short while.  But you know 
what? I now consider Storms one of her best albums.

Todd Barrett

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Subject: Re: NN: CWH is not good
   Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 19:08:35 EST
   From: Petop@aol.com

stever@mindspring.com writes:

> The Nanci that I became a fan of is a Texas
> musician, and Texas musicians have distinctive qualities. ...  Poets all, 
> but warmth, sensitivity, and related emotions are
> not usually part of their pallette. They shoot for truth, and hang the

    I would hate to paint all Texas musicians with that brush. I know a 
lot who write with sensitivity. Shake Russell is a wonderful example.
Michael 
Murphey is another. Alejandro Escovedo writes with sensitivity and the
warmth 
just oozes from Robert Earl Keen's latest, "Gravitational Forces," at least 
until you get to the final cut. Austin's own Toni Price also has a warm new 
CD out called "Midnight Pumpkin" as does fellow Austin resident Shawn Colvin

("Whole New You.") Other current Texas residents who should be checked out 
for their warmth and/or sensitivity include Marcia Ball ("Presumed 
Innocent"), Terri Hendrix ("Live in San Marcos"), Ray Wylie Hubbard
("Eternal 
and Lowdown"), Jimme LaFave ("Texoma"), Mandy Mercier ("Wild Dreams of the 
Shy Boys"). I would throw into the heap Lyle Lovett's "Anthology Vol. 1: 
Cowboy Man." Then, of course, there is the terribly sensitive and poignant 
Charlie Robison; just listen to his "Life of the Party" off this wonderful 
latest CD, "Step Right Up." 

*************
"A fellow will remember a lot of things you wouldn't think he'd
remember. You take me. One day, back in 1896, I was crossing over to
Jersey on the ferry, and as we pulled out, there was another ferry
pulling in, and on it there was a girl waiting to get off. A white
dress she had on. She was carrying a white parasol. I only saw her
for one second. She didn't see me at all, but I'll bet a month
hasn't gone by since that I haven't thought of that girl."
--Bernstein (Everett Sloane) in "Citizen Kane" (1941)

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Subject: Re: NN: CWH is not good
   Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 20:52:05 -0600
   From: Sarah Wrightson (sarahwrightson@vincebell.com>

[Can I say again how much I hate emails to a list where the reply-to is
an individual?  I guess a lot of people memorize email addresses, but...]

Petop@aol.com wrote:
>  I would hate to paint all Texas musicians with that brush. I know a
>lot who write with sensitivity. 

Ah now, don't be so literal.  No one said Townes wasn't sensitive
(g>..maybe what Steve meant was that many of the good ones aren't bloody
Love Boat drippy with the obvious and the overstated, the cliche and the
common.  Texas came to OKOM from a different tradition, and many have
avoided the dreary sameness of the tortured artist, hair hanging over
guitar strings, singing his/her autobiog.

Cheers,
Sarah W.

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Subject: Re: NN: CWH is not good
   Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:03:54 +0000
   From: "John Courtney" (jc_riselaw@hotmail.com>

Steve Robertson (stever@mindspring.com> objected

Well, hallaw ther, Steve

>The nature of the folks that post on this list has changed as much as Nanci

>has over the last few years.
>

Now that's a damned shame. Perhaps some sort of vetting process should be 
introduced :-). Or at least filter out offensive content ("emotion" yuck!)

>Let's look at the big picture. The Nanci that I became a fan of is a 
>Texas musician.....

LOL! Sorry, but that is just downright *funny*.

To be serious for a moment, the whole point about Nanci Griffith's music 
(IMO obviously) is that she has broken out from the constraints of her roots

and created something unique, entirely her own and which totally defies 
categorization. Which I suspect is the reason Tom Russell opens for her and 
not the other way round.

>Great concert from Glasgow!

Now there, you are absolutely right.

All the best
John.

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Subject: Re: NN: CWH is pretty good
   From: "Tony Cox" (tonycox@pacific.net.au>
   Date:  Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:48:03 -0500

John Courtney wrote:

> To be serious for a moment, the whole point about Nanci Griffith's music
> (IMO obviously) is that she has broken out from the constraints of her
roots
> and created something unique, entirely her own and which totally defies
> categorization. Which I suspect is the reason Tom Russell opens for her
and
> not the other way round.

Spot on.  For me, Nanci is lifted into the 'genius' category by her ability
to
take a simple musical idea and turn it into something magical, something
which
transcends genre or parochialism.

CWH may not be the album richest with such treasures, but I'd suggest that
'Traveling through...'  is as good an example of this wonderful talent as
you're
likely to hear from any artist.   And there are several other tracks which
have
cast their spell on me at various times.  I agree with those who have
expressed
admiration for her the quality of her singing on this album - not as
technically
perfect as on some earlier works, perhaps, but no less engaging or
seductive.

As for Shaking Out The Snow - well, I'm afraid for me it just doesn't work
very
well.  That's not to say she can't put what the hell she likes on her album
-
just that IMO 'quirky' is not what she does best.  If I want to hear quirky,
something by Victoria Williams, Ani di Franco or Kim Barlow usually hits the
spot.  Nanci's offering is interesting as a one-off, but just not quite
convincing in that effortless way of something that 'works'.  Still, like
most
people, I'm intrigued by what the lyrics reveal of her spiritual state.  It
seems amazing that someone who professes an inability to find an outlet for
expressing warmth and intimacy in her personal life is such a wonderful
communicator as a performer - though that's the blessing for us, I suppose.

Tony

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Subject: NN: Tom Russell
   Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 19:34:16 +0100
   From: Charlie Hulme (charlie@dweb.u-net.com>

Friends,

>That's an impressive article by Tom Russell. If only more reporters /
>feature writers could write that well. Any Tom fans here 

You rang, my lord?

>know if he has written any prose that's available?

There's "And Then I Wrote : The Songwriter Speaks" by Tom Russell (Editor),
Sylvia Tyson (Editor) - which is a collection of contributions by
songwriters, each with an introduction by Tom and/or Sylvia.

See: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1551520230/

Then there's the legendary novel which has only been published
in Norwegian ;-)

Tom Russell (like his friend Nanci G.) is one of the world's 
greatest exponents of the folk singer/songwriter genre, and his
2001 album 'Borderland' is possibly his greatest record. 
It's great to see him getting some exposure as opening act on 
Nanci's current tour ... but perhaps it should be the other way round? 

Gushingly,

Charlie

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Subject: Re: NN: Just in time for winter
   Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 18:12:55 -0700 (PDT)
   From: P Koether (jerzeejeff@yahoo.com>

--- Bill Page (bpage3@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Shawn asked:
> > -Second question... does it snow in Texas?
 
Yes Shawn, Bill is right it does snow in Texas... but
good ol' Austin seems to be blessed quite regularly
with ice storms.   And for some strange lemming-like
reason,  Austinites get so freaked out (or they used
to) by ice they all leave work early and drive ten mph
faster than usual (so they can get home and and out of
the ice).   Well... the resulting mayhem is truly
comical if you've ever been there to witness it.   I
used to live in an apartment complex that overlooked
Lamar Blvd. and 24th St.  There was a stoplight at the
corner, and we would sit out on our balcony with
plenty of shakers of vodka gimlets (the anti-freeze of
choice)and wait for the pile-ups.  We counted 37 hits 
one hour.  That was the record.   So "Shakin out the
Snow" can almost be considered a blessing compared to
"Slidin on the Ice".

Gotta go watch the Yankees now.

Paul "jerzeejeff" Koether

e-mailing a lot more often now that Jersey is now the
epicenter of anthrax distribution.   Boy and jersey
used to get a bad rap before ;-)

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Subject: NN: Screech Owls in the Snow
   Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 15:27:28 EST
   From: Catelaw@aol.com

towengmjr@yahoo.com writes:

> Actually, I would agree that "Shaking out the Snow"
> does have that quality.  But I also think that it's
> painful to listen to Nanci's voice on that song in
> particular.  Her high notes sound a bit shaky (if
> that's the word) to my ear on a lot of the album, but
> on that song especially.  Some people are saying that
> the strained voice is appropriate, but I suppose that
> maybe there are times when running ones fingers down a
> chalk board is an appropriate action, it still doesn't
> sound good.

Hee hee...I will admit that "Snow" took some awake listening to hook
me, as my usual habit is to plug in my headphones and a new CD while
I'm waiting for the bedtime bus to the ozone layer.  Did this several nights
running with Clock, and woke up each time at EXACTLY the same spot,
scrambling
to get the earplugs OUT and trying to figure out what in the heck was going
on!  And that spot was "a four-year-old in a swimsuit, brand new plastic 
skates..."

Eeek!  No sleeper here!  Back to Late Night Grande Hotel, which is a
perpetual
nightime blankie.

Finally I took Clock out on the road for some traveling and really heard
"Snow" after about three plays.  Then I set the player to repeat and
listened about ten more times, until I finally started to weep and had to
turn it off.  As Bill Page (I love it when you post substance, Bill!) very
aptly pointed out, the lyrics weave together so many thematic threads of
Nanci's writing to form a rich but sad and frozen tapestry of a life lived
mostly alone.  

Combined with the performance, it's just a real gut-wrencher, IMO, of
course.

As far as a stretch on the swimsuit, the snow or being locked out on
Christmas morning in Texas, it doesn't seem a stretch at all to me.  I
invariably pack winter and summer clothes for our annual pilgrimage to the
Hill Country, because ya just never know.

Reid wondered about Nanci's reflection on this event, Shawn responded with
his ever-amusing anecdote of brotherly persecution and I will add my own. My
oldest brother died a couple of years ago and even now, the things I
remember about him the most are the time Mom made him drag me along with his
buddies on one of their big adventures.  Really annoyed, he told me there
was some candy inside the next door neighbor's detached garage.  When I went
in, like a lemming, to check it out, he closed the doors and set the garage
on fire. 

My middle brother, aka "The Snitch", decided he didn't want in on that
action and the FDP came out to rescue me.  The other is when Older Bro got a
chemistry set and Younger Bro got a Superman suit from the Jolly One.  Older
Bro mixed all the chemicals together and told Younger Bro, "If you're
Superman, you'll drink this!"  A few frantic hours and one stomach pumped
later, all was well.

I don't remember these things with anger, rather they are the fabric of our
family 
folklore.  Besides, Older Brother went to VietNam and lost his childhood
memories; 
Younger Brother surrendered a lot of his to controlled substances (clean and
sober
now, though, for almost seven years) so I'm the family brain trust.  I
actually laugh
like hell at a lot of things that went on. 

If this is indeed a true life event, maybe the aNGel will be able to do the
same now.

Disses on Clock -- although it's a fine song, I can't get into "Armstrong." 
Partly it's because it doesn't really seem to fit as well as the other cuts
to me, although I understand it's a time placement piece, etc.  Its peace
disturbs the relative upheaval of various emotions that makes Clock what it
is to me.  Also, it's because
the quintessential "man on the moon" song will always and forever be, to me,
Vince
Bell's "All the Way to the Moon."  

Which, by the way, he performed with only a guitar as accompaniment last
night in Auburn.  When he intro'd it, I wondered how in the world he'd pull
it off, having only heard the elaborate studio cut on "Texas Plates."  Not
to worry, just another dimension.  And, as always, he mentioned Nanci when
he performed "Woman of the Phoenix."  What a show!  It was great, too, to
meet fellow Netter Lorrie Chase again and the good folks that run the
Sundilla Concert Series.  Anyone in that general area should look into it.
Quality venue and great people!

This is too danged long!

Cate, back in Atlanta

"Live in Texas" now available for download!
www.vincebell.com

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Subject: NN: New Nanci Listeners
   Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 22:31:48 -0500
   From: "Kennedy, John M." (kennedyj@indiana.edu>

I've been listening to CWH off and on for a few weeks and I guess I'd place
it in the middle to upper-middle of her CDs. I might be a little different
from most Nanci fans because I didn't think Flyer was nearly as good as some
earlier albums and later CDs.

My listening of CWH caused me to think about who might be the new listeners
to Nanci and where they came from. I came to Nancy in 1984 from listening to
other folk singers and with a secret appreciation for non-pop country music.

I'm not sure what kind of listener would drift into Nanci's latest music.
Any thoughts out there? Are there new listeners on this list? What attracted
you to Nanci's music?

John 
John M Kennedy

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Subject: Re: NN: New Nanci Listeners
   Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 07:02:17 -0800 (PST)
   From: todd williams (towengmjr@yahoo.com>

I got started on OVOR, which I still think is one of
her better albums, even though it's all covers.  That
was about 6 or 7 years ago, so I guess I'm a fairly
new Nanci fan.  I hadn't even heard of her until one
day I saw her on A&E I think it was, and I was
instantly mesmerized.  
But frankly, though I enjoy some of her later stuff,
I'm not sure that any of her post OVOR albums would
have drawn me in as a fan, at least not in such an
instant and complete way.  Maybe DBS, but that doesn't
really count because it relies mainly on earlier work.
I think a lot of people on NN overrate Flyer, OV2 and
BRFTM are certainly lacking, and I've already
expressed my opinion on CWH.
Really, if I was going to rank Nanci's albums I would
pretty much go chronologically from Poet in my Window
to the new one.  With the exception being that I'd
move LNGH down a couple and OVOR up a couple.
You bring up an interesting question though, John. 
I'm anxious to hear from some really new Nanci fans. 
I would tend to supect they heard the old stuff first
and got hooked on it.

Todd 



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Subject: NN: Emmylou's Stretch
   Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 01:21:34 -0500
   From: "The Kimbros" (kimbroj@charter.net>

Did you catch Emmylou's performance during the 7th inning stretch of the
World Series tonight?  Now there's a pro at work.  She only had a few
seconds to get onto the field and get the song out before the commercial
break, it looked like they just threw the mic stand at her and it wasn't
tightened down so it swung away and she had to grab it with the hand in
which she held her plugged in guitar.  She'd obviously planned to play
during the song but she was then on the field alone with a mic wasn't gonna
stay put and a stadium full of people and a billion watching on TV.  Somehow
she managed to hit her root chord and she held the mic and performed a
flawless and very beautiful a capella version of "God Bless America."

Warm Regards,
-Shawn

http://mountainsoul.cjb.net

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Subject: Re: NN: Emmylou's Stretch
   Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 06:41:45 -0800 (PST)
   From: todd williams (towengmjr@yahoo.com>

ELH was excellent.  Her performance was only
over-shadowed by RJ's (go Dbacks).  I've actually
never particularly liked that song before, but she's
one of those people who can not only make almost
anything sound good but can make it sound like it's
her own.  And it actually got my wife to watch part of
a baseball game.  

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: NN: Emmylou's Stretch
   Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 09:02:43 -0800 (PST)
   From: Bill Page (bpage3@yahoo.com>

Shawn wrote:
> Did you catch Emmylou's performance during the 7th inning stretch of the
> World Series tonight?  Now there's a pro at work.  

I have it good authority (Emmylou's mailing list :) ) that in the current
Air
Force commercial with "Shenandoah" in the background, the one doing the
humming is indeed EMH...

BP

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Subject: Re: NN: Emmylou's Stretch
   Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:32:03 -0500
   From: DvBGardner@genelogic.com

Bill Page wrote:  ((((I have it good authority (Emmylou's mailing list :) )
that in the current Air Force commercial with "Shenandoah" in the
background, 
the one doing the humming is indeed EMH...>>>>

Undoubtedly, Bill -- I was sure that was EMH.   The song she hums in the
background reminds me a lot of  "Bang the Drum Slowly" from her Red Dirt
Girl CD  (my favorite of hers).

Donate --- currently rehearsing 'Messiah'--- v.B.-G.


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Subject: RE: NN: Emmylou's Stretch
   Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:45:09 -0500
   From: "Kaczmarczyk, Peter A" (pkaczmar@indiana.edu>

There is at least one more voice harmonizing on that commercial that
always reminded me of Dolly Parton, I just assumed the song was from one of
the (2?) albums she Emmy recorded with Dolly. Is this not so?

Peter K.
www.hungersite.com - Visit Every Day!
Now playing - Dust Bowl Symphony - Nanci Griffith

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Subject: Re: NN: CWH is not good
   Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 18:50:55 -0800 (PST)
   From: P Koether (jerzeejeff@yahoo.com>

--- Todd Barrett (astrocity@hotmail.com> wrote:
> But you know what? I now consider Storms one of her best albums.


ARE WE GONNA START THE GREAT NANCI DEBATE AGAIN? I
hope so ;-)
STORMS Is my favorite album by NN partly because of
that cute pudgy cherubic face on the cover.  It just
melts my heart. As "A man of Girth" I appreciate a gal
with a little meat on da bonze. sorry she's so skinny
again.

Radio Fragile and Storms exemplify the breadth of
musical diversity that Nanci can pull out her bag of
musical magic.

As for a somewhat fun thread started by Cate
Whittington is the fav. nighty-night CD.   Storms is
one of mine along with Carribean Blue by Enya.  

Any takers on the good-night thread?

Paul "jerzeejeff" Koether

live from Trenton NJ.

Now playin: "in spite of ourselves"    John & Iris
         that's Prine & Dement

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Subject: Re: NN: good night thread
   From: PRobin5478@aol.com
   Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 22:06:39 EST

jerzeejeff@yahoo.com writes:

> Any takers on the good-night thread?
 
I'll try.

My favorite late night, all alone in your dorm room, coming down music:

After the Gold Rush by Neil Y (but you have to skip over the rockers, 
Southern Man and When You Dance) 

The Koln Concert by Keith Jarrett (or any of his solo albums)

Only the Lonely by Frank Sinatra

Blue by Joni M.

all and every Billie Holiday record

Beethoven piano sonatas (preferably by Schnabel or Arrau)

and my all-time favorite album, Astral Weeks by Van the Man


Peter Robinson



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