// Lots more discussion about our tragedy...and more...

// Enjoy!  [BP

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Subject: NN: BEACON SHOW RESCHEDULED
   Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:37:04 -0500
   From: Alan Koenig (alankoenig@bellsouth.net>

Please be advised that Nanci's show at the Beacon Theater in New York City
has been rescheduled for Monday, December 10th.

- Alan Koenig 
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Subject: NN: Local Concert for Peace
   Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:43:45 -0400
   From: DvBGardner@genelogic.com

Dear friends --

We are trying to organize a local concert for peace -- calling on all
musicians who would be willing to participate.   If you are interested, or
have any musician friends in the Washington, D.C. area who might be
interested in participating and/or helping us organize this, please let me
know via this email address or at MUSIKERIN54@aol.com.    The sooner the
better......

Donate
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Subject: NN: Candlelight Vigil
   Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 14:17:22 -0700 (PDT)
   From: John Houser (jchouser@yahoo.com>

Saw this post on a Vigil on another board and thought
I would share it with the folks here after closing.

The following editorial was also shared on the other
board. Best piece I have read - expresses my views
very, VERY well:

http://www.miami.com/herald/content/features/columnists/pitts/digdocs/000565.htm

The last several sentences say it all, and I quote:

"What was it you hoped to teach us? It occurs to me
that maybe you just wanted us to know the depths of
your hatred. If that's the case, consider the message
received. And take this message in exchange: You don't
know my people. You don't know what we're capable of.
You don't know what you just started. But you're about
to learn."

May God Bless America, may He also bless all the
Peaceful and Loving people on this planet Earth, and
may He also protect all innocents, on either side, as
we start the process of dispatching human excrement to
hell.

Folks in NY, DC, or anyone affiliated with folks on
the planes, my thoughts are with you...

JCH
San Luis Obispo, CA
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Subject: Re: NN: MESSAGE FROM NANCI / MORE CONCERTS POSTPONED
   Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 20:28:47 -0400
   From: Stanley Zucker (szucker@chelseastudios.com>

I too knew Bill Weems and echo Nanci's sentiments and wish to pass on
condolences to his family.

My apartment in NYC is less than 2 miles from the Trade Center with a
dynamic view of the downtown skyline from the 21st floor terrace.  At
night I would see the continuous flickers like firelflies of the tourist
flash cameras from the observation deck of the South Tower.  It was
always amusing, that tiny flash intended to illuminate the entire city
before it. The apartment is on the East River at Grand Street and until
today when the wind changed, the neighborhood has been eerily normal,
yet decidedly solemn and silent.

Virtually everyone in New York has lost friends or family, myself
included.  I, for one, cannot yet come close to finding words to express
this reality. It's been nearly 3 complete days now and first and
foremost, profound sadness permeates.  Then a deep respect and
yes, love, for the firefighters, police and rescue professionals who
were going in when anyone in their right mind was heading out.  Then a
depressing frustration at being so limited in the ability to help.  But
most of all, by a long, long mile, I am so very proud to be a New
Yorker.

I must confess to mostly being a lurker here, rarely rising to post but
still considering myself a bona fide Netter, tied to the group by
respect and love of Nanci's music.  And while the following is off
topic, I beg indulgence to post here some of the observances of a fellow
American's recent Tuesday.  He was in New York attending a meeting of
Emergency Physicians, Nurses, and Paramedics.

.........Soon after the collapse of the second tower we were deployed as
a team to "ground zero," about four blocks from World Trade Center
Building 7, which itself collapsed about 5 hours after our arrival on
scene.  Twenty-two of our group triaged patients and provided medical
support to the New York City Police and Fire Department.  Our
contribution was very small. Nevertheless, here are my impressions,
poured out in a rather staccato flight of images:

The enormity of the destruction was exceeded only by the summed human
courage and spirit of the victims.  The few deranged terrorists were
hopelessly outnumbered by the hundreds of thousands of common, everyday
people responding in the only way they knew - with love and compassion.

As our team loaded on a bus to go into Manhattan, I looked upward. Over
the courthouse across the street, the flag had already been lowered to
half-staff.  A worker there knew his job and had responed as only he
could.

The owners and managers of the 40 story building in front of which we
set up our casualty station also were single-minded: give the medical
team and the police and firefighters whatever they needed or wanted.

Tables and chairs were brought outside and used for patients; easels and
coat racks were IV poles; any food in the building was ours; medical
equipment and supplies were freely removed from a nurses' station in the
building. Blankets and pillows appeared almost miraculously.  A
maintenance crew set up floodlights outside the building for our
"hospital."

Other maintenance engineers became food service workers.

People brought bandages and medications from their own medicine cabinets
in their apartments to give to our team.

A doctor needed a bicycle to travel to a triage staging area.  A local
bicycle merchant gave him one of his new models.  The doctor told him,
"I don't know when - or if - I'll be able to return it."  The shopowner
said, "Don't worry about it."

When you asked New Yorkers where to locate something, they wouldn't tell
you - they would take you.

"Reasonable" replaced "legal."  If it was needed, you could, and should,
do it.

Paramedic crews from New Jersey arrived quickly as though their next
door neighbors had been injured - and they had.

Injured firemen and police had only one thought as they were being
treated - returning to help their colleagues.

Tearful firefighters told us, "Don't call us heroes.  We're only doing
our job."

Volunteers to help came out of the woodwork (like us, I guess):  "I'm a
dentist.  Can I help?"  "I'm a nurse.  Can I help?"  "I'm a
psychologist. Can I help?"  "I'm a CNA.  Can I help?" "I don't have any
medical skills.  I can write, and I speak Spanish.  Can I help?"  "I'm
strong and willing.  Can I help?"

Every time a group of more than 5-10 police or firefighters walked past
our intersection or down the street, onlookers applauded.

A man driving a truck loaded with bottled water stopped at our medical
station, unloaded his entire truckload of water, and drove away without
a word being spoken to us.

As the World Trade Center Building 7 collapsed 4 blocks away and sprayed
its debris toward our station, some people panicked and ran, and some
fell to the sidewalk.  But others stopped to help them to their feet to
avoid being trampled by the crowd.

Acts of heroism were performed as if routine.

A homeless man spent nearly 5 hours at our intersection directing
traffic - very successfully.

Back at our hotel - a Marriott, by the way - the building was opened for
tired and injured people evacuating Manhattan by foot.  A large meeting
room ("Capacity - 2019") became a shelter.  Coffee, water, and juice
appeared.  Food (the good stuff, too - including tortes and pecan pie)
came from the kitchen.  Blankets, pillows, and towels were provided.

A first aid station was set up by some of our team.  They even allowed
us to establish a blood donation center with the help of local blood
bank officials (not exactly "legal," but certainly "reasonable").
Furthermore, the Marriott staff even brought four refrigerators into
first aid room for the donated blood.  At that, hundreds of donors had
to be turned away.

The human spirit - an element of  "common grace" - prevailed in hundreds
of thousands of New Yorkers' lives.  News reporters want to create
scorecards that tally only bodies.  That's the wrong way to
count.............

Thanks for reading this.
Stanley Zucker
NanciNetter and New Yorker
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Subject: NN: Link to a piece I wrote about Tuesday, published in SC paper
   Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 23:19:35 EDT
   From: ChocChippy@aol.com

I'm very sorry Nanci's not playing tomorrow. I was just thinking before I 
heard the news how much I needed to hear her.

Kathleen W.

http://web.thestate.com/content/columbia/2001/09/13/local/onthescene13.htm
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Subject: NN: Re: NYC
   Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 00:31:55 -0400
   From: James Brock (jbrock@nyc.rr.com>

>From a Nanci Griffith fan:

September 11. 2001

Life changes at certain points, forever. I was living near Ramstein, Germany
when it was bombed in the early 1980s, and I remember feeling the assault.
We always knew about the threats, grew accustomed to the machine guns in the
airports and the heightened security everywhere. But to most Americans, this
is an unknown. People who grow angry when they are delayed at airports for a
baggage check must now realize that they have experienced one of those
life-changing events...4 planes hijacked in the space of one hour, 4
cockpits breached, pilots probably killed, jetliners full of fuel and human
life transformed into giant, deadly bombs. (As I type, I am listening to
NPR; many Palestinians are dancing in the streets in celebration, handing
out sweets to children...unwrapping the candies and screaming their glees of
approval...) All American airline companies and airports contract out their
gate security capacities; many of the people whose responsibility it is to
keep weapons off of planes are paid less that the minimum wage. This must
end.

Three buildings collapsed in Manhattan, hundreds of rescue personnel dead
and injured. No telling how many people crushed in the tons of concrete and
aluminum. 

My office is 8 blocks from the WTC complex; I was at an appointment uptown
when the planes slammed into the square buildings. I did not go to work.

I am a big critic of US foreign (and domestic) policy; I believe that the
best citizens of a nation are the ones most adamant about making sure it
maintains its standards. I think many persons around the world have some
legitimate grievances against the US.

In fact, I think it is a travesty that all my fellow citizens do not have
health insurance; that we are letting our military members live in housing
not fit for horses and cows; that our mentally handicapped war veterans are
scorned and ignored; that our Supreme Court overruled our democratic vote
and usurped the White House. But, this is too much. No matter my grievances,
killing innocents is something I would never do.  Nor condone. Kill
political leaders. Bomb empty Federal buildings. Don't do this. To anyone.

September 13. 2001

The distinct odor of burning rubber and steel remains in the air, and a haze
floats, as if an omen, over the island. We find joy in the retrieval of 5
firefighters, but beneath those lucky 5, all of whom were in the 2nd or 3rd
wave of rescuers, are countless thousands of fathers and mothers and sons
and daughters. We are desperate to hear even one of them tapping on a wall,
or a crushed piece of concrete. One sound brings the work to an even more
fevered pitch.

I watch men, some in their 20th hour of work, using nothing more than
5-gallon buckets to rapidly, but delicately, move rubble. They can use
nothing more, for they do not want to cause a cave-in. To me, they are like
Sisyphus. 

I went today to a firehouse near our apartment, to bring food and whatever
else the men and women might need.  There were tears and firm handshakes.
These men and women are true heroes.

Firehouse 30 in Manhattan is full of strangers today. Its rightful
inhabitants, the personnel who spent their days and nights there, are all
dead, lying somewhere under tons of glass and metal, and tears. A new group
of firefighters has moved in.

Paddy O'Keefe, an ironworker, was among the many people who built the World
Trade Towers. He, and many other Union workers, is now helping dismantle it.
On his arm, written in large letters in waterproof ink, are his name, social
security number, and blood type.

Later today I went to the Pierre, a hotel at 61st and Fifth Avenue, to
volunteer for Cantor Fitzgerald, a small financial firm that called the
World Trade Center its home. Most of its 700-plus employees are gone. In one
of the hotel's beautiful halls, the faux cloud-bedecked ceiling hangs over
round tables with place cards reading "Floor 104" and "Floor 105" and so on.
At those tables sit men and women, some holding young children, faces blank,
or flooding with tears. Taped to the ornate columns around the hall are
hundreds of pieces of paper. On these pieces of paper are photographs of the
missing. I read, "Please help me find my husband. John _____, father and
lover. He was wearing a blue shirt, and wears glasses. I miss him. Call
718-///-//// if you have seen him." Something in me sinks, and I feel
powerless: So much rage to help her find him, but the knowledge that I can
do nothing.

Up around 65th Street, near Central Park, many people are wearing disposable
breathing masks. They do not want to take in the debris, thrown into the air
and up in to the sky.

The block on which the Israeli Embassy rests is barricaded. Hanging from the
embassy's facade is an American flag. Taxi driver rushing up and down the
avenues with American flags flying take more care to not endlessly lean on
their horns. The island is more peaceful.

I stopped by a favorite restaurant this evening to say hello to the owner. I
had some wine, ate something. She came out of the kitchen and without words
leaned down to hug me. I hugged her back. Hard.

James Brock
Manhattan
------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NN: That Canadian Letter
   Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 01:52:21 EDT
   From: BMiller224@aol.com

I'm trying not to post too much about the war situation.

But our non-American contingent here on the NN has been so supportive and I've
been so very impressed by the official and unofficial European response to this
I thought I would mention something.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2001/09/13/germany/index.html

I found these parts especially moving:

(( Government leaders have urged people all across Europe to observe three
minutes of silence Friday in honor of the thousands who perished on Tuesday. 
(( Flags have been at half-mast at the [German] Reichstag and other federal
buildings since shortly after the horrific news hit. Thousands of
grief-stricken Germans attended special masses.  ...
(( [German Chancellor Gerhard] Schroeder powerfully invoked history: "When it
came to defending the freedom of Berlin, John F. Kennedy said 'Ich bin ein
Berliner.' It was the
expression of an unbelievable solidarity. Today I think Germany has an occasion
to return this solidarity." ...
(( And for now, the German people are standing behind Americans, as are the
citizens of the rest of Europe and most of the world. At times that support has
been poignant. In Berlin, many locals have tearfully recalled the Berlin
Airlift that kept this city alive in 1948.  
(( Germany's most important politicians and thousands of citizens converged on
Berlin Cathedral Wednesday morning to mourn the losses. The cathedral was so
packed that hundreds had to stand at the plaza outside.
(( As Peter Struck, a Social Democrat parliamentary leader, said simply: "Today
we are all Americans." >>

Bruce Miller
Oakland CA
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Subject: NN: Our British Friends
   Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 04:15:48 -0400
   From: ian robertson (100451.1006@compuserve.com>

Just to let you know that we continue to think of you all.

I suspect you will already have seen that the Queen ordered an alteration
to yesterday's Changing of the Guard ceremony at Buckingham Palace, which
included the playing of the US National Anthem. It was most moving.

We Brits are not a flag waving lot and indeed most of us don't own a Union
Flag ...... apart from the soccer supporters who then deface it by
scrawling their teams names on it. All the more significant then to see
this morning commercial buildings here flying the Stars and Stripes as a
tribute.

We will be joining in the silence at 11am Uk time and will think of you all
even more then.

Ian R
------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: NN: Our British Friends
   Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 18:12:46 -0400
   From: DvBGardner@genelogic.com

Tim Baird wrote:   (((President Bush has asked for a national day of prayer
tomorrow.  I hope that everyone will take time out during lunch and go with
your friends and your colleagues to a local church to pray.  God bless you
all.>>>>

Thank you for your post, Tim.   I, too, feel it's necessary to extend a
hand of thank you over to our UK and other European friends who have been
so very kind to everyone over here, despite losses on their own end as
well.

I organized a prayer meeting on my company's parking lot at noon today and
we talked, sang and prayed while the bells were ringing at a nearby church.
While I understand that many feel it's time to "whoop some butt", I still
hope that we can resolve things in a swift and possibly peaceful way.

I am totally overwhelmed by the display of caring and unwavering spirit
amongst the American citizens here.    In the past I have often felt some
concern that there was too much naivite on the part of the government and
the American people, where world politics and the stance of the U.S. in the
world order were concerned.    Over the last few days, however, I have
become convinced that this spirit of brotherhood and faith that is being
demonstrated everywhere, combined with the resolve to stand up and keep on
going, will be the best  weapon (and  possibly least expected by the
enemies) that the U.S. has to get through this crisis.   Even if some of
this subsides over time -- as is often the case -- this attitude may just
be the key to pulling us through.   One thing is for sure -- if the enemy
had expected a flustered, confused or disorganized people in the wake of
these attacks, one that claims defeat and pulls in its tail....... they
were wrong.    You don't have to be religious to be impressed with the
immediate reaction and coming-together of democrats and republicans alike,
standing on the steps of the Capitol and singing; strangers helping
strangers, people travelling from all over the nation to help......  (not
to mention my teenage daughter who is deathly afraid of needles but went to
donate blood.....:).   My assistant ran 9 miles to work this morning,
carrying a US flag.   Red-white-blue ribbons were handed out at my company
today.   Many people drove with their lights on all day.    There is a
candle vigil at 7 pm tonight all over this country.     These expressions
of solidarity and the patriotic sentiment is very impressive -- albeit felt
from different angles by everyone.   Some feel solidarity with their fellow
citizens, a pride in their country and the resolve to stand proud and with
dignity and faith.    Others wave the flag to demonstrate that it's time to
go to war and kick butt -- the flag being a much more aggressive symbol
here.   Then there are others who really don't care either way but simply
get swept up in the hoopla of sensationalism and cyberspace circus.......
disgusting, isn't it?

This country is blessed with an abundance of wealth, education,
intelligence, and technology.    As it seems right now, it also is blessed
with an abundance of tremendous spirit and caring for one another.   Let's
hope and pray that we will learn to use these gifts not to assert our
superiority in the world, not to blow them away in useless maneuvers, but
to help make a positive difference in the lives of other nations.
Moreover, it would be nice if  this temporary shift in so many citizens
from tunnel-vision thinking to a more global approach of brotherhood might
linger on, way beyond this crisis.   Maybe we can become a more inclusive
society - where racism, homophobia and narrow-minded bigotry make way for
this more patriotic attitude .....   wishful thinking?

Off to make sandwiches for the rescue workers...... have a great weekend,
everyone!!!!
Peace!

Donate
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Subject: NN: Nanci on Radio 2
   Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:48:24 +0000
   From: "Mike Barrett" (mikebarrettuk@hotmail.com>

Ian Robertson's posting earlier this morning echoed my own feelings.  We 
Brits may not in the main be people who express our emotions very easily or 
openly, but that doesn't mean that you in the US have anything other than 
our heartfelt sympathies.

Tuesday's terrible events have cast a dark pall over everything, to the 
extent that one begins to feel guilty about even momentarily putting the 
memory of those incidents aside and concentrating on something else, 
particularly something pleasant.  It seems somehow irreverent to do so.

But it was cheering to hear Nanci on BBC Radio 2 last night. Recorded 
several weeks ago, from a time which now seems far away, before the world 
changed, when we weren't able to envisage such massive horrors as we've seen 
this week outside of a movie.

She sang two songs live - "Midnight in Missoula" and "Clock Without Hands" - 
and was her usual interesting and upbeat self throughout the interview.

An enjoyable 20 minutes or so during which the enormity of the week's 
tragedy briefly took second stage.

Mike Barrett
------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NN: Re: Re: New York
   Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:33:03 EDT
   From: RoanInish@aol.com

((  Whoever the attackers turn out to be, our war is against them, 
not against people who share their ethnic group or religion.

But the President said explicitly today these were "acts of war." It's 
hard to speculate what the size and scope of it will have to be. Or what
sacrifices it will involve. >>

One lesson I hope we will learn for the horrors that unfolded on Tuesday is 
that we need to be much more careful about who we deal with in this world. 
Osma Bin Laden, got his initial training and funding from the CIA during the 
1980's.  Like Saddam Hussein we are seeing how supporting and backing such 
unsavory figures can come back to haunt us.  

One thing for sure is that our lives will never be the same, and I'm not just 
talking about longer waits and delays at airports.  But let us hope that 
something positive can come out of all of this.  Let us learn some lessons to 
keep this disgusting display of cowardice from being just a footnote in our 
history.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NN: September, Auden, apropos...
   Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:51:45 -0400
   From: "David Steere" (SteereD@sil.si.edu>

I sit in one of the dives
on Fifty-second Street
As the clever hopes expire
Of a low dishonest decade;
Waves of anger and fear
Circulate over the bright
And darkened lands of the earth,
Obsessing our private lives;
The unmentionable odour of death
Offends the September night.

W.H.Auden, "September 1, 1939"
------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: NN: September, Auden, apropos...
   Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:08:26 -0700 (PDT)
   From: Reid Mitchell (reidmitchell@yahoo.com>

David, as you know, later come lines that won't be
popular today but are worth quoting.

I and the public know
What all school children learn
Those to whom evil is done
Do evil in return.

------------------------------------------------------------------ 

Subject: NN: Thanks & Response
   Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 19:41:09 -0500
   From: "Geri Hutchins" (hutchins@arn.net>

>From someone who usually only lurks, I want to thank all of you NanciNetters
who have sent words of support.  But I also want to thank all of you in
Canada, Germany, Great Britain, Norway and every place else that joined with
America today in mourning.  The scenes of 200,000 at the Brandenburg Gate in
Berlin, the playing of our National Anthem at the Changing of the Guards and
in Ottawa and many other measures taken by the world today means more to us
than you will ever know.  Your solidarity and support will never be
forgotten!

I too take this attack quite personally and I too want retribution...but
retribution by the world against terrorism and against hate. We can not
allow our anger and pain to create a violent reaction that will only
sacrifice our sons and daughters for nothing.  We must allow the wisdom and
strength of the world to work together and rid this world of the terror and
hate.  Some of that will come in the form of military strikes, some I hope
will come in form of reaching out to these people and trying to find a way
to overcome that hate.

Frankly, it's easy to wave the flag and call for retribution.  As a daughter
whose father served in WWII and Korea and a daughter whose mother served
during Korea....I'm well aware of my responsibilities of being an American
and frankly it is more than waving the flag and calling for retribution.
It's about taking pride in my world, picking up the trash I drop, driving
with courtesy and respect for my safety and my fellow drivers,  it's about
having respect for all Americans no matter their race or religion or
whatever and many other things.  Unfortunately, here in the land of the
free, we have "proud" Americans threatening Islamic Mosques and throwing
rocks at Moslems and threatening anyone who resembles one of
"them"...whoever "them" is.

>From a Distance is not about passive peace.......it's about active peace,
one built from respect and common good and acceptance and appreciation of
our differences.

Geri Hutchins
Lubbock, TX
USA

------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: NN: Thanks & Response
   Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 21:21:57 -0400
   From: Tony Cox (tonycox@pacific.net.au>

Great post, Geri, and one I totally agree with.  It's not quite as simple as a
straightforward good versus evil battle (although the acts of those hijackers
were about as evil as I've known.)

I was saddened today to see in the news that many Australians are taking out
their anger at last week's events on the nearest Moslem they can find, most of
whom have come here to escape the very type of regime that spawns these
suicide-bombers.  What's worse is that those suffering most abuse are Moslem
children, who are suddenly hated outcasts at their schools.  Not all
Australians are as friendly as they like to think they are.

I've been to many middle-eastern countries and the vast majority of their
citizens are poor but decent people trying to lead a dignified life under
corrupt, brutal, unrepresentitive regimes bank-rolled by the West or the Soviet
Union to protect economic and military interests.  Or, as with the Kurds or
Palestinians, have no home-land at all.  Sadly, in some cases desperate people
with nothing left to lose resort to evil extremes.  I just hope that we don't
add to bin Laden's army of 20,000 lunatic followers (or any other so-called
fundamentalist movement) by making new enemies through indiscriminate
retaliation and careless aerial bombing.  It's encouraging that Bush and Powell
seem to be thinking this one through; I hope it marks a new era of more
enlightened foreign policy, eventually leading to true democracy for the
citizens of those countries and a more peaceful world for the rest of us as a
consequence.

Tony

We're all one spirit
(Aboriginal belief)

- if only we realized it
(my addition)

------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: NN: Thanks & Response
   Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 12:18:05 EDT
   From: Petop@aol.com

hutchins@arn.net writes:

> it's about active peace, one built from respect and common good and 
> acceptance and appreciation of our differences.
       The problem here is, however, we are dealing with individuals who do 
not accept nor appreciate differences. Look at these questions:
       Have you ever listened to a song that did not praise Allah as the one 
true god?
       Have you ever gazed upon a woman who shamelessly displayed her face in 
a public place or, worse yet, are you a woman who has displayed her face in 
public place?
       Have you ever engaged in any decadent behavior such as attending a 
movie, a public presentation of any kind, that was not dedicated to the 
teachings of Allah?
       Have you ever purchased for your own personal use an automobile?
       Have you ever engaged in the despicable practice of saving money for 
your own personal use instead of willing giving this money to the cause of 
Allah?
       Have you ever worked for an organization whose aim was to make a 
profit?
       Have you ever practiced such heathen religions as Christianity or 
Judiasm?
       Do you believe democracy is an acceptable form of government?
       If you answered yes to just one of those above questions, you are 
condemned to die. You and any others who answered any of these questions 
"yes," must be annihilated from the face of the earth. That is not debatable. 
That is not negotiable.
       I'm sorry, but that is the mindset of the people you are dealing with. 
I will love to see anyone who can come up with a peaceful response in this 
situation.
       We are dealing with any enemy unlike any other in the history of our 
nation. Old rules don't apply.
       What we saw last week was just the first strike against our nation. It 
was a symbolic strike against the twin evils of capitalism (as represented by 
the World Trade Center) and the second against our democratic form of 
government (the original target of the plane that hit the Pentagon was the 
White House). 
       Of course, our government immediately began chasing its tail after 
these attacks, beefing up security at airports. An airport, an airplane is 
probably the only safe place to be right now. These maniacs have already done 
their airport/airplane trick. Next time it will be something different. I 
have no trouble getting on an airplane right now. I would not, under any 
circumstances, go to a Super Bowl or a World Series game anytime until these 
terrorists are wiped out.
       Where I want security beefed up is at our city water supplies. These 
terrorists brag about their abilities with chemical and germ warfare. That, 
to me, is the next likely avenue of attack unless we act speedily and 
decisively. 
       They also brag about their ability to access and handle as well as 
their willingness to detonate nuclear devices. Since their aim is the total 
destruction of our way of life, nuclear detonations would certainly hasten 
this process. 
       We saw all too clearly Tuesday that these creatures have absolutely no 
regard for the sanctity of human life. They will not let anything stand in 
the way of achieving their goal. 
       I am 59 years old. I spent the mid-'60s working on voter registration 
drives and the late '60s and early '70s working vigorously to extract us from 
Vietnam. I never felt at any time the North Vietnamese or the Viet Cong posed 
a serious threat to our way of life. These terrorists do. They have declared 
war on us, our way of thinking, our way of behaving, everything about us. 
They will not stop until we are destroyed or they are destroyed. If you or 
anyone can find a peaceful solution to this quandary, I would love to hear it.

==============
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them
myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them on long winter
evenings."
--Philip Marlowe (Humphrey Bogart)  in "The Big Sleep"

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Subject: NN: Words of MLK
   Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 21:40:10 -0400
   From: Tony Cox (tonycox@pacific.net.au>

Dear Nancesters, especially in the US,

This is from someone on the Melanie list.  It seemed so
appropriate that I wanted to spread it wider.  Knowing how
much understandable rage that will be felt at the extreme
abomination against humanity this week,  I wanted to at
least do my bit to stem the slide into the abyss that the
world is heading for.  My own hope is that in seeking out
(and taking out) the perpetrators, it can be done with not
one more *innocent* life being lost.

Thinking of you all, with a heavy heart.
Tony
--------------
Today as a community, as a school and as individuals we come
together in remembrance of those who died and in compassion
for their loved ones who must carry-on . Would it also be
possible for us to ensure that they did not die in vain,
that our actions after today build a monument to their
sacrifice. Please listen to the words of Martin Luther King
as you consider this challenge.

"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a
descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to
destroy. Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it.
Through violence you may murder the liar, but you cannot
murder the lie, nor establish the truth. Through violence you
murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely
increases hate...Returning violence for violence multiplies violence,
adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness
cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out
hate: Only love can do that."

I ask you to join me in a time of silence as I light a
candle of healing and love.

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Subject: NN: Love is a hard waltz
   Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 16:19:55 -0500
   From: "Melendez, Brian" (BMelendez@faegre.com>

Have these lines struck anyone else as eerily prophetic?

"Hey, the shores of our country have closed for this season
and our lady of the harbour stands lonely and weeping"

BRM

Brian Melendez
brian.melendez@usa.net

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Subject: NN: Some Thoughts... (MNC)
   Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 20:49:17 -0500
   From: "steve" (thekidd@flash.net>

Afternoon, All: De-lurking after a long time for a couple of thoughts on 
the recent events.

It seems there are already some folks looking for a scapegoat(s) in the 
Government on which to blame the surprise attacks. To try to pin blame 
on anyone right now is inappropriate, but that seems to have become more 
common in our society. We Americans always want something for nothing. 
We under-fund important federal agencies and then complain when 
something bad does happen that "they" should have done something about 
it, known about it, etc.

Could the FAA have done anything about the hijackings? No... Petop's 
right, airport security is not in the FAA's jurisdiction. Even if it 
were, do you think most Americans would have put up with having to 
arrive at the airport 3-4 hours early just to go through security 
checks? Up until Tuesday, most people (myself included) chaffed at 
having to go through the existing airport security. Who could have 
foreseen such events?  Even if a FAA official had thought that someone 
could hijack a plane to use as a flying bomb, without evidence, most 
folks would have written him off as crazy. Heck, even now whenever they 
show the plane crashing into the South Tower, I have to remind myself 
it's real, not some Bruce Willis "Die Hard" movie.

The same is true of our intelligence agencies. Does anyone think they're 
just sitting back saying, "Oh well, we'll do better next time"?  I can 
tell you there 's a lot of sorrow and soul-searching going on. I'm sure 
they're working real hard to figure out if there was something they 
could possibly have done to prevent such unspeakable acts. 
Unfortunately, we rarely hear of their successes in stopping potential 
terrorist acts. We only witness the failures. Remember, terrorists only 
have to be "lucky" once, when defending against terrorism we have to be 
lucky all the time.

Do we need to improve our intelligence effort? You bet. But never 
underestimate the determination of someone who's willing to commit 
suicide to further a cause. If you need evidence, look at the combat 
footage of the Kamikaze attacks against the US Navy during World War II. 
In those cases we had PERFECT intel. We knew where they were coming 
from. Even knew when they would arrive. Those sailors fired hundreds of 
thousands of rounds of ammo and did everything they could to try to stop 
the Kamikaze pilots. Many were shot down and still some got through.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is this: There are no guarantees in 
life. There are no perfect systems incapable of error. In war, there are 
always lost battles, even for the winning side. The point is we need to 
have the resolve to see it through to the end.

Believe me, I don't like war, don't want to go to war. I've seen 
firsthand the terrible consequences of war. But, I also understand that 
on the continuum of options, force is sometimes the only way to 
accomplish what needs to be done. Never forget, there are plenty of 
people who only understand naked power and brute force. To show weakness 
to them is to invite further attack. In the current situation, force is 
one form of response, but will probably used in conjunction with other 
forms of political and diplomatic action.

At any rate, we have been too complacent in this country too long. 
Complacent about our lives, our good fortune to be living in the US, our 
country's place in the world. And the theme of complacency that has been 
a recurring thread thru many of Nanci's songs and in CWH seems all the 
more appropriate as we mourn the loss of so many innocent people who 
never realized that as went to work 11 Sept 01 would be their last day 
on this earth.

Just my 2 cents.

Steve

"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to 
visit violence on those who would do us harm." George Orwell

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Subject: NN: Roller Coaster
   Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 00:44:12 -0400
   From: "The Kimbros" (kimbroj@charter.net>

We played tonight, our first gig since.  People came out, I was surprised.
At 7:00 we stopped, everyone in the restaurant left their tables, no matter
the stage of dining, and took a candle outside.  We stood in the middle of
the street, downtown Cumberland Gap where three states meet.  There were no
cars.  We lit our candles, someone prayed, lots of tears, someone told about
a family member lost, then we sang "America, America, God shed his grace on
thee."  It felt right, it felt healing.  Back inside to one of our best
shows ever.  It was all clicking, the audience was wild, hungry for relief.
So were we.  Driving home, the humor and excitement after a good show seem
to restore a sense of normalcy.  Healing.  Sonny's cell phone rang.  His
mother, probably a stroke, not much hope of surviving the night.  This is
not the ride I stood in line for.  I want off.

-Shawn

http://mountainsoul.cjb.net

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Subject: Re: NN: Roller Coaster
   Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 11:05:48 -0400
   From: DvBGardner@genelogic.com

Shawn, thank you for this post.   I know many of us are sharing your
feelings here.
It's such a gut-wrenching decision to make...... do we stop to pay
appropriate tribute to the fallen, or do we go on with as much normalcy as
possible to show that we shall prevail?     I am grateful for your band
going out and bringing a bit of healing out there into the community.

I arrived home at about 6:50 pm, rushing in to grab a candle, calling my
next neighbors to come out and meet me.   We ended up pulling a bunch of
people over to our corner of the street...... so many kids with
candles..........    We, too, prayed and sang America the Beautiful and God
Bless America.    Little first-graders wanted to show off their newly
learned Pledge of Allegiance.    Many of us strangers to each other, we all
ended up parting friends.    There are those of us who pray for a peaceful
resolution.   There are others who clinch their fists and want revenge.
But all felt the common bond of needing to stand together.

I want to thank Bill Page for allowing us all to vent, mourn, philosphize,
counsel and encourage each other on this email list.   Not much Nanci
content, yet it is in times like these that we all grateful to have a group
of friends in each other.

Hope Sonny's mother will pull through this.   This is a terrible time to
experience personal tragedy, unrelated to the current events.   I hope that
your friend has a strong support group to help them through it.

To all of my friends out there -- remember to hold on tight to your loved
ones.   Look left and right before you cross the street, but don't be
afraid to hold hands and cross over.

Peace!

Donate

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Subject: Re: NN: Roller Coaster
   Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 10:53:07 -0500
   From: Sarah Wrightson (sarahwrightson@vincebell.com>

>From another list, with love to all,
Sarah

Music is a powerful medicine.
Just as certainly and swiftly as it can provide the fabric for celebration
and rejoicing, it can provide the comfort for both grief and loss.
Just as certainly and swiftly as its rhythms can move one's feet and arms,
its rhymes can calm one's heart and soul.
Its beauty and power can remind us of the astounding possibility of the glory 
and bliss of the human spirit at times when events in the world around
us do nothing but remind us of the mindlessness and brutality of hatred.

Each of The Archivists intends to set aside some time during each of the next
few days to listen to some of their favorite music while they ponder and 
reflect upon the days past and the days to come.

The Archivists invite you to do the same. 

Listening to music will not bring anyone back to life. And it will not 
reverse the calendar.

But it will remind us of all of the reasons we all automatically and 
intrinsically cherish life. And of all of the reasons this loss of so
many lives is so mind numbingly horrific.

R W Hand
Curator
Rhino Handmade Institute Of Petromusicology

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Subject: NN: The President Borrowed My Ancestor's Motto
   Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 14:40:06 -0400
   From: Steve Robertson (stever@mindspring.com>

During one of his statements, President Bush said something like "America is
a peaceful country, but we are fierce when roused". The chiefs of my
ancestor's family group back in Scotland in the 1300s added a gaelic motto
to their arms:

``Garg'n Uair Dhuisgear" (Fierce when roused).

Unfortunately, I'm having a difficult time relating this to the world today.
Those ancient Robertsons helped win the Battle of Bannockburn. They wern't
even Robertsons back then. They were the family group led by a chief known
as Duncan the Stout. Duncan helped Robert the Bruce win that battle, and the
conjecture is that Duncan asked for permission to name one of his sons
Robert- in honor of this victory. Future generations then became Robert's
Sons. These fierce Highlanders made up a large part of the migration to the
Carolinas that helped shape the American character.

On the other hand, the ancient Robertsons helped win the battle, but they
eventually lost the war. They came to America because their tribal way of
life was being dismantled by the 500 pound Gorilla of the day. For over 400
years, the Highlanders struggled against overwhelming odds in an attempt to
preserve their country and their way of life. Their more civilized neighbor
thought the Highlanders were simply troublesome barbarians. Gaelic was
banned, along with the Highlanders traditional dress. Highlanders fought
with guerilla tactics, and some of the more extreme factions probably took
actions that would be considered terrorism today- although I doubt if they
were religiously motivated.

So what conclusions do we draw from this? That less civilized groups are
doomed to forever struggle hopelessly against those more civilized? That the
only solution is for the less civilized to pull themselves up by their own
bootstraps into the civilized world? That everyone should study their own
ancestors to see how they compare and relate to the Third World of today?
Personally, I'm still looking for answers.
-- 
>From the Georgia Pines,
Steve Robertson

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Subject: NN: New York Minute
   Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 20:15:17 EDT
   From: GORDON1717@aol.com

I just got through talking with a friend back in the Missouri town that I 
recently left. There is one Pakistani family that lives there and yesterday a 
group of thugs dropped by their home and beat the father up as retribution 
for what his type had done in NY and DC.
Seems to me that they mirrored perfectly with their racism the same evil that 
the terrorists themselves displayed. My heart goes out to that family who 
are, like every other Pakistani family I have ever met, gentle, peaceful, 
loving folk who would never ever do anything like this. Those bastards are 
sitting in relative safety in Missouri while we are here in the DC area 
actually under attack and they are using this country's tragedy to vent their 
prejudices on innocent people.    All people of this ilk should be shamed by 
the real "Americans" that are reaching out with love and sympathy to all the 
people touched by this horror, the firemen, the police, the volunteers. 
Nobody is checking the religious affiliation of the possible survivors or for 
that matter, the dead bodies 
they are pulling out of the wreckage. There are I am sure members of every 
major religious group digging through that mess for the bodies of people from 
every major religious group which is as it should be in this wonderful 
country. That is the real face of God in my opinion!
Sorry this is so disjointed and badly expressed

Has anyone listened to Don Henley's "New York Minute" lately.
It sounds like it was written on Tuesday doesn't it.
Gordon (an Englishman who loves America)  

New York Minute
*****************
Harry got up,
Dressed all in black,
Went down to the station
And he never came back
They found his clothing
Scattered somewhere down the trrack
And he won't be down on Wall Street in the morning

In a New York minute
Everything can change
In a New York minute
Things can get pretty strange

Lying here in the darkness
I hear the sirens wail
Somebody going to emergency
Somebody's going to jail
You find somebody to love in this world
You better hang on tooth and nail
The wolf is always at the door

And in these days
When darkness falls early
And people rush home
To the ones they love
You better take a fool's advice
And take care of your own
One day they're here
Next day they're gone

What the head makes cloudy
The heart makes very clear
The days were so much brighter
In the time when she was here
But I know there's someoone somewhere
Make these dark clouds disappear
Until that day, I have to believe
I believe, I believe.

In a New York minute
Everything can change...

Gordon

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Subject: Re: NN: New York Minute
   Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 20:36:59 -0500
   From: "Andrew DeYoung" (ADEYOUNG@houston.rr.com>

I've recently reconnected with this illustrious bunch after a few years
away, although Hans Janssen and I have stayed in touch over the years.
Nanci's cover of John Stewart songs on CWH was enough to bring me back. It's
good to see his work recognized by his long time friend, although Nanci and
John did team up on Sweet Dreams Will Come on LLA in what now seems to be a
very, very long time ago, and John joined the ensemble on OVII's Deportee,
receiving some hits for his voice. He voice was far different when the
Kingston Trio recorded Deportee on their Time To Think album in 1963.  John
Stewart is an American treasure.

Anyway, its good to be back and see some familiar names.  Especially enjoyed
the notes regarding the '97 Austin Concert and the Waterloo gathering.  It
brought back fond memories.

>From Galveston County, Texas,

Andy (lost but now found)

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Subject: NN: music still healing...
   Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 20:27:28 -0400
   From: "davidtsteere" (davidtsteere@yahoo.com>

Just a note to my fellow NANCINETTERS about the exquisite new cd from 
Jennifer Warnes, THE WELL.   It's a must--both musically and 
emotionally.  Enjoy. I posted the following on Amazon.com and 
cduniverse.com, wanting to spread the news.

Jennifer Warnes is ageless. That wonderful youthful, humor-laden voice 
is still beautiful (nearly ten years after "The Hunter" and over 30 
years since "Hair" in L.A.). There is justice in the universe for a 
singer/songwriter as talented as this. In a very strong year (new Nanci 
Griffith, Lucy Kaplansky, Buddy & Julie, Patty Loveless, Carter/Grammer, 
Kate Rusby, "Songcatcher," etc.), "The Well" shines out brightly. A 
lovely combination of originals and Warnes covers, don't miss this one. 
"Prairie Melancholy," the Celtic "Too Late Love Comes," Billy Joel's 
"And So It Goes," the old Eddy Arnold duet "You Don't Know Me" 
reimagined, "The Nightingale," Arlo Guthrie's "Patriot's Dream" (so 
needed after the events of this awful September week), and the haunting 
title cut all raise the goose bumps and haunt the heart and brain. 
Jennifer has gathered an incredibly impressive array of instrumentalists 
and co-writers...and Nat King Cole's grand piano. Thank you, Jennifer.

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Subject: Re: NN: New York Minute, and Circles
   Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 21:12:21 EDT
   From: Brimpls@aol.com

So many songs speak to us differently since the tragedy.  Thank you, Gordon, 
for sharing "New York Minute" with us.

It's okay to be disjointed right now.  We all are.

In our working-class neighborhood in Minneapolis, neighbors gathered at the 
street corner last night at 7 p.m. with our candles lit and our umbrellas 
held up over us as it was a rainy night.  We stood together for about an 
hour, singing, praying, talking together, sharing concerns.  There were about 
25 of us by the hour's end, all ages, including some children who know all 
the words to "This Land Is Your Land"!

Gordon, what you write about the violence against Pakistanis in Missouri is a 
concern for all of us here as well.  One of the women in my block reported 
that her husband, who is African American, had had his car spit on this week; 
another woman shared that her Somali co-workers have been fearful because of 
comments they are hearing shouted at them.  We talked in our circle about how 
the terrorists do not represent any one country or any one religion, and that 
we need to come together as a nation now more than ever, all of us.  

I think we do a really good job of this if we start locally and make the 
circles bigger and bigger.  Our neighborhood is close but could be closer; 
it's tolerant but could be more tolerant and more educated about other 
people.  The woman who led the prayers suggested that we make sure we know 
people's names before we left the gathering. Some of us know almost all our 
neighbors already, but some are more private and did not yet know each other. 
The gathering was a most positive experience. We decided to keep gathering 
every Friday night at 7 p.m. with our candles lit and our voices ready to 
sing, as long as it takes...I like this idea very much.

I think it helps the children in our block to feel more secure and safe, too, 
if they see how much their neighbors care.  We are all concerned for the 
children right now.  In our block alone, we have kids who attend public 
schools, parochial schools, and private schools; very few of the kids in our 
block go to school together. Each school is handling the tragedies 
differently.  Some of these kids were in classrooms where the tv's were left 
on virtually all day Tuesday and Wednesday.  Can you imagine how that 
affected these young kids?  My son's school was much more thoughtful about 
the situation and actually put out a policy right away about the televisions 
in classrooms.  In my son's grade, sixth grade, the teachers were asked not 
to have the tv's on.  The kids had already seen the tragedy earlier that 
morning. They also had an all-school chapel on Tuesday (it's a private school 
with an Episcopal heritage, and students are of all faiths).  

At the high school level, I believe the policy at his school was that the 
individual teachers could decide.  But the youngest kids should not be 
bombarded with those images. Of course each child's parents are responsible 
for guiding and supporting the child and for listening and being there...but 
we can't be with our kids all the time, and I am so concerned about the 
children in America who saw the WTC tragedy replayed over and over like that. 
So I'm thankful for how it was handled at our school. But I also know that 
there are more difficult days ahead of us and more decisions to be made.  

We all need to care for each other and do what we can in our circles.

Thanks for listening,

Sabrina

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