NanciNet Digest 3-19-03
// Folks, this has been a tough week on the list.
// As you can imagine, some feelings have been waxing
// hot, and we have spent a lot of time discussing
// freedom of speech...including on this list.
// So I have decided not to cut any of the emails
// from the last couple of days--including the ones that
// disagreed with my request to not make this a political
// forum! There actually IS some Nanci content here, in
// that she has released a new song for peace. Lyrics are
// listed below.
// I am sure that there are a couple of other posts that have
// come through today and are not reflected here. I will follow
// this digest with another one tonight or tomorrow.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: NN: Re: Times a-Changin'
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 07:38:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawn Kimbro (shawn@mountainsoul.net>
John Graveling writes:
> I saw the Dixie Chicks in London on Monday
> night. Fantastic concert. They said, as
> Texans, how ashamed they were of their
> President.
Thanks, John, but did you hear that she has now
recanted and apologized in the face of conservative
opposition after a few radio stations dissed her.
Real DIXIE CHICKS (READ - NANCI GRIFFITH) hold fast to
their convictions and passions.
-Shawn "tonight, stand for peace, by candlelight"
Kimbro
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: NN: Re: Times a-Changin'
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 09:18:40 -0700
From: "Andrew Werling" (nitesead@earthlink.net>
I can understand disappointment...I for one went out and bought their
new CD
when I heard she made the bold statements that she made, as I wanted to
support any country artist who would go against the grain like that.
That's
one musical genre stuck in a peer-pressure trap. I keep remembering
k.d.
lang going about as far as one can go against the mainstream country
grain,
doing ads for PETA. Go girl!
I don't see any reason for derision, though. She went as far as she
could
go, farther than most people, in her public statement. There is a lot
of
fear out there, and I don't see any reason to judge someone negatively
for
falling to it. I'm sad to hear she recanted and apologized. She's
probably
judged herself enough--and been through enough.
Standing for peace is great...I'm there too. But let's leave room for
the
human element. These are complicated times. Judging others doesn't
seem to
be an act of peace to me.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: NN: Re: Times a-Changin'
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 20:14:28 -0600
From: "Roland Hennessy" (RonHennessy@msn.com>
I think artists and everyone else are entitled to express their
opinions.
As for me, I support our president and our troops.
As Andrew Werling said, "These are complicated times." Questions that
occur
to me: Is Saddam Hussein's regime a threat to U. S. national security?
Is
the Iraqi government somehow tied to the 9/11 attack or to other
terrorist
acts and plots dangerous to our country? I don't know.
Some of the weapons disclosed to the U. N. inspectors and destroyed
seem to
indicate terrorist purposes. And Iraq delayed allowing the inspectors
in
long enough to hide many more.
It seems to me one of our main military problems in fighting this war on
terrorism is identifying the enemy. In the past, combatants engaging in
military operations out of uniforms were executed as spies if they were
caught by the other side. But terrorists are all that harder to
identify.
When Iraq attacked Kuwait, it was a clearly identifiable enemy. Whether
they
remain a threat outside their own borders is not clear to me.
But I wish our president and our troops well. I also hope for peace as
soon
as possible, consistent with our national interests and those of good
people
everywhere.
Ron Hennessy
P. S. I still love the Dixie Chicks, and defend their right both to make
statements and retract them.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: NN: Re: Times a-Changin'
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 09:59:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawn Kimbro (shawn@mountainsoul.net>
Passion and conviction are the two principles I hold
most dear. That's one of the reasons I remain a big
Nanci Griffith fan. Yes, sometimes she goes off, says
things I don't agree with, even gets a little nutty,
but there is never any doubt what she stands for and
where her convictions lie. I believe a lot of artists
could learn from that. It's also the reason why
Natalie Maines moved way up on my list this past week,
and why she's now fallen off of it entirely. Perhaps
that's judging, but it's my list and my robe and
gavel.
All my best,
-Shawn "a proud American veteran for peace"
Kimbro
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NN: Re: Times a-Changin'
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 23:26:26 -0500
From: BMiller224@aol.com
I agree with Shawn that Natalie Maines' apology was entirely
unnecessary.
But I'm not quite so critical of her retraction for a couple of reasons.
One is that her apology was a straightforward apology, not one of those
weasel-mouthed non-apology apologies that politicians love, as in, "I'm
sorry if anyone was offended by my remarks." (Translation: anyone who
was
offended by my remarks is an idiot.)
She also used her retraction to state her opposition to our legitimate
President's obsession on immediate war with Iraq, which looks to begin
within days if not hours. (Someone suggested that Captain Ahab and Moby
Dick would be a good comparison.) In her first statement that caused
the
controversy, she had only made a general remark dissing the High
Sheriff.
But I just don't get this thing about how an American shouldn't
criticize
the President outside the country. It's not a legal thing at all. She
wasn't violating any British law by criticizing Bush. And there's no
US law
that makes criticizing the Pres outside American borders verboten.
But lots of her critics claimed to be especially offended because she
made
her remarks "on foreign soil." That makes no sense to me. That thing
about
"foreign soil" sounds, I don't know, idolatrous, or monarchical, or
maybe
just plain goofy.
There could be some practical problems for people who look at things
that
way. *USA Today* recently did a lead story about American tourists in
Europe getting static from the locals because of the war. Finessing
that
seems like a no-brainer to me. If somebody comes up to you in Europe
and
asks, "Are you American?", you just need to know how to say, "I hate
Rummy"
in the local language. You know, like "Ich hasse Donald Rumsfeld" in
German, or "Odio Donald Rumsfeld" in Spanish.
That should break the ice immediately. Rummy is more unpopular in
Europe
than Saddam Hussein. Why, he's even more unpopular than Sheriff Bush
himself!
But if you're one of those people who sees the signs on the border that
say,
"Leaving USA - Turn brain off now," that could limit your options. Then
when you're in Madrid or Rome or some place like that and someone asks
if
you're American, all you can do is say in English, preferably at two or
three times normal volume, "I love George Bush! I hate the French!
America
is the greatest country in the history of the world!"
Yeah, that'll go over big.
Bruce "Yo odio Rummy tambien" Miller
Oakland CA
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: NN: Re: Times a-Changin'
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 14:17:44 EST
From: B0DIE62460@aol.com
Hi,
> But, today, I also saw a news item about the comment
> Natalie Maines of the Dixie >Chicks made on the war issue
> I hereby officially take back every nasty thing I ever said
> about the Dixie Chicks. (I always liked their
> music, I just thought their public personas when they first
> became famous were >ditsy.)
I agree - have always loved their music, but Natalie, in particular, IMO
needed to get a 'public' attitude adjustment. This isn't the first time
Natalie's done something like this. Anyone that likes 'country' music
remember when she asked Gary Chapman, host of "Prime Time Country" on
TNN,
if he'd rather date her, or Amy Grant? That was in POOR taste, to say
the
least, since Gary was in the midst of a divorce from Amy at the time.
As
far as I know, no public apology was ever made about it. As to her
'anti-war' beliefs, she's certainly entitled to have them. Her recant
made
much more sense than her first statement. If you're anti-war, then say
so -
but don't "attack the messenger" who's the one we see every day on the
news
- our President. My opinion of the Chicks hasn't changed - LOVE their
music, and wish Natalie would think before she speaks.
See ya
Beth
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: NN: Re: Times a-Changin'
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:56:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawn Kimbro (shawn@mountainsoul.net>
Nanci Griffith has said the same thing Natalie Maines
said in England, but it hardly ever makes news. I
think the difference is that Nanci generally draws a
more open-minded and tolerant following than the more
mainstream Dixie Chicks. Perhaps I was a bit harsh in
my opinion of Natalie. Despite the apology, she still
spoke her mind. It's incredible to me how an incident
like this can make so much news, while so many sit
back and quietly ignore the weighty issues of killing.
Last night I attended a candle-light peace vigil
along Knoxville's waterfront, and I found Natalie's
statement to be a topic of conversation there even.
Amazing. Oh and one more thing. I also support the
president and our troops (hell, I was a "troop" for 10
years!), but I do not believe this war to be a viable
solution.
Question authority,
-Shawn
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: NN: Re: Times a-Changin'
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 15:03:14 -0500 (EST)
From: lippert@nauticom.net
On Mon, 17 Mar 2003, Shawn Kimbro wrote:
> Nanci Griffith has said the same thing Natalie Maines
> said in England, but it hardly ever makes news. I
> think the difference is that Nanci generally draws a
...
Plus Nanci is a lot less well known.
> president and our troops (hell, I was a "troop" for 10
> years!), but I do not believe this war to be a viable
> solution.
>
I was just saying at work today: "I HATE THIS F....G COMPUTER!!", ..er,
um,
yeah I did say that, but what I said that was apropos to this
conversation
was this: "i think the fundamental difference between conservatives and
liberals (if i can be permitted to divide the world in two just this
once)
is that conservatives always want a simple, black and white answer. I
have
even heard talking heads on the Faux News Network saying "Keep It Simple
Stupid", while liberals are more prone to admit that the world is a
complicated place and people live or die by shades of grey. Einstein
said,
"Everything should be as simple as possible, but NO SIMPLER." Sometimes
(most times, all times) a simple good v. evil, black hats v. white hats,
cowboy mentality is not a reasonable basis for foreign policy (or
domestic
policy for that matter). (Yes I am aware of the self-contradictory
nature of
the entire preceding paragraph).
How can anyone equate (as the local dj did here) the statement "I am
ashamed
he is from Texas" with being "anti-American"? This either/or,
black/white,
good/evil, false dichotomy is a refuge for those that can't or don't
want to
admit that the world is hard to understand, and that the solutions to
global
problems don't easily fall into those categories. Is there evil in the
world? of course. Can we just have a shootout with it on mainstreet at
noon
and be done with it? No. Every decision, every action, every inaction,
has
consequences that spin off into the future and touch the responsible
and the
innocent. It takes a great deal of intellectual ability, wisdom built
from
experience, and historical perspective to analyze the complicated
threads,
the interactions of the various elements, and the synergies of disparate
events to foresee enough of the pattern in the final cloth to make a
reasonable choice today. A simple tossed of comment like "Axis of evil
including... North Korea..." can initiate an entire new tempest in a
world
that already has plenty to deal with.
I have heard so many people say "I trust that the president knows
something
we don't know that justifies this choice for war", putting aside the
fact
that he has never said that - and what hard evidence he HAS presented is
damn shaky if not outright fabrication (aluminum tubes for nuclear
program,
stolen nuclear material from Africa, an abandoned "training camp" in the
*Kurdish controlled* north) - putting all that aside, are these people
so
ignorant of what a representative democracy is SUPPOSED to be, that
they are
ok with going to war when they don't know the real reason? Actually I
think
there are many people that would rather have a king than a president -
it
makes all those hard choices so much easier.
And the next person that accuses me of "not supporting the troops"
because i
don't believe that this is a "just war" is going to get their liver fed
to
them on a stick. I have nothing but respect for those that volunteer*
(*may
it always be so says the father of an 18 year-old male) to potentially
make
the ultimate sacrifice to defend my personal liberty and freedoms.
They are
all good soldiers and they will follow orders, they do a job I could
not do,
and I appreciate them and thank them for that. I do have a problem
with the
cowboy giving the orders. But here is another example of the black and
white fallacy: you have to be either PRO-AMERICAN (president, troops,
economy, WAR, etc) or you are ANTI-AMERICAN. Not to show my true geek
nature or anything, but strength comes from "Infinite diversity in
infinite
combinations".
Oh yeah, I like Nanci Griffith's music too. Let's hope she won't be
touring
the mideast sometime next year teaching land mine victims how to make
scarves.
Question authority,
(But raise your hand first)
kenn "gonna have to buy some baling wire to go with all this duct tape"
lippert
| kenn lippert "See Kate Campbell"
| lippertNO@SPAMnauticom.net KateCampbell.com
|
| "I have loved the stars too fondly "The moon, the music, and me."
| to be fearful of the night." -Vince Bell, Texas Plates
| -Sarah Williams www.VinceBell.com
| 3ap.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NN: Times a-Changin'
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 07:14:01 +0000
From: Graham Shipley (gshipley@perioikos.u-net.com>
Friends may like to know there is a poll link at WRAL.com on which you
can
vote whether or not you intend to boycott the Dixie Chicks. At the
moment
the vote is 18,000 to 12,000 in favour of a boycott.
> From the story at
> http://www.wral.com/entertainment/2042461/detail.html:
'NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- The Dixie Chicks' Natalie Maines is apologizing for
saying she's "ashamed" of President George W. Bush. She says she was
disrespectful, and anyone who holds the presidency should be treated
with
the utmost respect. Maines also says she's a proud American, and she
wants
to see all other options exhausted before the lives of Iraqi children
and
American soldiers are lost in an attack. Maines told a London audience
this
week, "Just so you know, we're ashamed the president of the United
States is
from Texas." The Dixie Chicks -- consisting of Maines, Martie Maguire
and
Emily Robinson -- are all Texans. There were calls for a boycott of the
group's music after word of Maines' comment reached the United States.
Two
Dallas and three Kansas City stations stopped playing their songs. And
in
Pennsylvania on Friday, Cat Country 106.7 labeled the day, "Dixie Chick
Free
Friday," and they're leaving it up to the listeners to decide how long
that
will last.'
Graham Shipley
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NN: Re: Times a-Changin'
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 22:12:30 +1100
From: "Tony Cox" (tonycox@pacific.net.au>
I attended a great little one day folk festival in country Victoria
(that's
a state in Australia) on Saturday. Harry Manx was the worthy headliner
-
another brilliantly talented Canadian who I heartily recommend.
http://www.harrymanx.com/home.html
Before him, a local band called Reggie's Trio took the stage for a set
of
Celtic-type folky stuff, including, would you believe, an up-tempo
version
with much frantic strumming of "It's A Hard Life". They carried it off
quite well, actually. The front man was a Ronnie Drew (of the
Dubliners)
lookalike who made his presence felt in more ways than one. His
inter-song
patter included the statement: "I'd just like to go on record as
declaring
that John Howard is f*ed!" (John Howard is Australia's Prime Minister,
part of the "coalition of the willing".) Everyone laughed. That's the
way
we've always treated our politicians - with mirth and scepticism. It's
really sad that the ray of sunshine that is Natalie Maines is copping so
much flack for daring to express a similarly irreverent attitude. It
would
be a real shame if it stifles her delightful exuberant nature.
Tony "pro regime change - just about everywhere" Cox
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Everyone's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a really
easy
way: stop participating in it." Noam Chomski (on Clinton's massive arms
deal with the Turkish governement - arms used to brutally repress their
Kurdish population.)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NN: RE: Re: Times a-Changin'
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 21:43:56 +1200
From: "Ken Stiffler" (ksmsc@kmsx.net>
Bruce wrote:
>> "Odio Donald Rumsfeld" in Spanish.
((
Hey, I like that! Is that "Odio", as in maybe having the same root word
as
"odious"? Odious Donald Rumsfeld. Sounds appropriate, no matter what
language you speak, or where in the world you're speaking it.
On the Natalie thing, I do see a bit of a difference between speaking
your
mind in an intelligent conversation - no matter where you are, and
standing
up in front of an audience and blurting out a derogatory comment (even
if
the derogatory comment is deserved).
But I see it more as a case of civility rather than an issue of
nationality.
It's very possible that I would have had a different opinion at one
time and
considered nationality a bigger issue, but today, the world is a much
smaller place. The Internet, e-mail, and mailing lists like this one
make it
very easy to communicate across national borders. There is a distinct
community here on the NanciNet, among people of various nationalities,
and I
feel more a part of that community, than I do of, say, the Washington
D.C.
community.
I'm not going to hold my tongue when speaking with my friends, just
because
they aren't "Americans", be it via e-mail, or in person. (And, since I'm
currently working in New Zealand again, that is a very real and
immediate
issue for me.)
Maybe, as more people around the world communicate based on shared
interests, rather than based on shared borders, we will eventually
eliminate
the need for confrontations and wars, preemptive or otherwise.
Not that I'm trying to put words in her mouth, but I suspect that Nanci
Griffith would take more pride in promoting interaction around the world
based on music than on promoting interaction based on political
boundaries.
Oh, and, just so it's clear what sort of thing I'm likely to be saying
to
people, American or otherwise: I think that the United States of
America is
still the world's best hope for leading the way to a world where wars
aren't
necessary. We have a strong tendency, once an issue has been raised and
hammered back and forth for awhile, to either do the right thing, or at
least to move a step or two forward - toward doing the right thing.
Combined
with our military power and our affluence, that can be a powerful agent
for
good the whole world over. HOWEVER. . . We are, day by day by day,
losing
ground because our current leadership is abusing our position in the
world.
A position that has taken hundreds of years to achieve. A position that
many
Americans fought and died for. That same leadership, while poisoning our
position as the best hope to lead the rest of the world into a brighter
future, is systematically destroying the society on which our
"potential"
still rests. It's a sad situation.
There. Now you know what I'll be telling all them furreners.
Ken "you may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one" Stiffler
// odious, from the Latin "odium" - hatred [BP]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NN: late night
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:08:19 +0100
From: "Hans Janssen" (hjanssen@zeelandnet.nl>
Got this from a Hightone list:
"SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT: Tom Russell is scheduled to appear on the LATE
SHOW
WITH DAVID LETTERMAN on April 30th! He will be accompanied by Nanci
Griffith and Andrew Hardin. Tune in!"
met vriendelijke groeten,
Hans Janssen.
// hope Dave's back by then...he's fighting shingles. [BP]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NN: Nanci Concert - London Barbican
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 00:15:32 -0000
From: "keith.farman" (keith.farman@ntlworld.com>
Hi
As it has been a couple of years since I subscribed and the last digest
suggested you lacked postings specifically relating to NG, I attach the
following in case of interest to anyone. The context was an AmerIcan
Culture series of concerts at the Barbican Theatre in London about 3
years
ago. There had been some suggestion in the digest that NG may have been
suffering from a recurrence of an earlier illness and it did seem to me
that
there was an even more special atmosphere on stage that night. It
prompted
the following poem. Anyone who has been to an NG concert will I think
pick
up references etc.
Regards - Keith Farman
And Here is Love
Down concrete corridors
Of dismal London streets
The faithful music lovers stream
To share for just one night
A fleeting moment bright
Of another person's dream
And here is love
The friends are round
To pass from lips to hearts
A sacrament of word and sound
What shall we pass on if not
Remembered things from other souls
Simple but profound
And here is love
The old man in his battered hat
Has seen it all before
Life-won feeling in his young man's voice
Electrifies the hall
And the man in black whose magic fingers race
Proves that reticent respect
Is a Christian grace
And here is love
And from the massive soul
Of deepest racial wrong
The cry of freedom ever strong
Rings out proudly from the light
And Odetta's stirring manly voice
Finds echoes in the dark
And here is love
The quiet master music man
Orchestrates the sound
Wherever she may look or move
In harmony they're bound
Friendship is too small a word
To capture what they've found
And here is love
Exchanged glances
In a pool of light
Unspoken fears
Hang in the air
Hope shines through these loving eyes
Which friendship magnifies
And here, oh yes, here is love
At the centre of this love
Truly at its heart
With graceful gamin strength
The poet singer winds the threads
Spun from gifts so freely shared
To make the ties that bind
And here is love
And on some future day
A long way off we pray
Another voice in a another room
Moved by love will say
Their life was changed for better things
By joy the poet singer brings
And here is love
And so she ends where she began
Old land's roots still strong
Passing on remembrances
Outside place and time
Stirring love in others hearts
To sing out loud and sing out long
And here is love
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NN: Re: One Fare Summer Evening
Date: on, 17 Mar 2003 08:46:58 -0700
From: "Gardner, Mark" (mark.gardner@bi.com>
For anyone needing Nanci concerts on VHS, I would trade OFSE, OVOR, or
OV2
for DVD's of same. I'm not sure what's available on DVD, though.
Mark Gardner
mark.gardner@bi.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NN: A Woman's Heart: A Decade On (No Nanci Content)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 07:23:55 -0700
From: Paul Larsen" (Paul.Larsen@hsc.utah.edu>
I am usually a lurker, but I heard something on NPR this morning that
sounded like it would be of interest to at least some on this list. It
is a
CD that came out in February entitled A Woman's Heart: A Decade On. It
includes music by Sinead O'Connor, The Corrs and The Chieftains, Alison
Krauss, Emmylou Harris and Dolly Parton. Admittedly, I have not heard
this
compilation yet more than the snippets that they included in the radio
segment (you can hear it at http://www.npr.org ), so if someone out
there
would like to guide me toward purchasing it or warning me to stay away
from
it before next payday, I would appreciate it.
Peace
Paul
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: NN: A Woman's Heart: A Decade On (No Nanci Content)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 14:00:04 -0800
From: Steve Brogden (steveb@adnetsol.com>
I heard the same thing and I thought I heard that it was a compilation
by
Mary Black. I loved the clips I did hear and I'll probably try to pick
it
up too.
Steve Brogden
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NN: Innocent Messenger...
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 06:29:40 -0800 (PST)
From: MUSIKERIN (musikerin@yahoo.com>
B0DIE62460@aol.com wrote:
(((..... If you're anti-war, then say so - but don't
"attack the messenger" who's the one we see every day
on the news - our President.....>>>>
Did I miss something? Dubya is only the "messenger"
and not the one whose agenda has been about this war
long time before he was elected? Puppet in the hands
of his greedy friends and family, yes.
Messenger? No.
Seems to me that Saddam is no real threat to the U.S.,
he is a brutal s.o.b. who is effective only in his own
sand box and should be eliminated by his own folks.
And yes, embarrassingly enough, he has some of this
power due to the wonderful weapons and starter kits
for mass-destructive weapons that we, the U.S.,
supplied this guy with. Now we want them all back?
In his recent national TV address, Bush mentioned that
Saddam invaded other countries...did we not train
and direct Saddam to help us fight Iran?
There are some juicy oil fields right around that
area, that we would like to get our hands on in the
process, but don't clothe this as defending our
security. At what cost? Loss of life on both sides,
including civilians, post-war poverty and disaster,
loss of credibility and diplomatic stance with our
allies. Of course, several U.S. firms are standing
ready to rebuild the post-war Iraq (interestingly
enough, quite a few of them have close personal ties
to the Bush Family).
If we really want to "defend our country", we should
look at the real threats, those countries who DO have
the ability to reach into the U.S. with their weapons.
But since their fighting style is fierce and in many
ways superior to that of our mentality, we'll try
diplomacy with those guys first. Why are we not
investing all these resources into going after folks
like bin Laden?? Guess our chances of coming out
victorious with these REAL enemies are not so certain
.... so, let's do a show-down with an "enemy" where we
have the upper hand.
Saddam p..... me off big time. Someone needs to take
him out. But it shouldn't be our job, and at the
expense of our young men and women out there --
feeding the greedy mouths of those who are heavily
invested in the armament and oil industries.
My family has too many friends whose babies have
shipped over there right now. And I don't like
having my husband taken from me for days on end
without contact these days. Those of us who signed
on for duty to defend our country, did it to defend
the U.S.. Not to be used as dispensable tokens in a
bully show-off.
Donate "really tried hard to stay out of this
debate....." v.B.-G.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NN: Enough...
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 13:59:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Bill Page (bpage3@yahoo.com>
"HUH???"
Okay, folks,
I wathced the first couple of salvos in this discussion go by,
and then hoped it would go away.
It hasn't.
This is not a polital debate society.
The part of this discussion that related to Nanci's comments are
slightly on topic.
The part that gets into personalities of the president or any
other individual are not on topic. Nor is the part that
discusses the advisability/desirability/stupidity of the
potential upcoming conflict.
It is probable that the membership of this list would lean
slightly to the left of center in discussion of potential war
and in review of the performance of the president. But that
presumed majority should not use this forum as a protest medium.
Nor should those who are of opposing views enter into debate on
this topic on this list.
This IS NOT and WILL NOT be the forum for such discussions.
Bruce began this with a comment that it had been a long time
since he had started a political discussion on this list.
I hope it's a LOT LONGER before he starts another one.
Consider this the shot across the bow...
Bill "anyone else want to be list manager?"? Page
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NN: Re: Enough...
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 10:11:41 +1100
From: "Tony Cox" (tonycox@pacific.net.au>
Bill, you're right, of course, but hell - this is the most interesting
the
list has been for months!! Back to inconsequential observations about
nothing much in particular while the world sits on the brink of the
abyss, I
suppose;)
So what's Nanci up to these days, anyway??
Tony
PS Way to go, Donate - respect! as Ali G would say.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NN: Re: Re: Enough...
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 18:31:30 -0800
From: "Susan Krauss" (sekrauss@attbi.com>
Tony asked:
> So what's Nanci up to these days, anyway??
And Nanci answered (or her website):
Download Nanci`s New Song, ``Big Blue Ball Of War``
http://nancigriffith.com/images/discog/tracks/bigblueball.mp3
Nanci has written and recorded a new song, "Big Blue Ball Of War," and
is
making it available for you to download! Click below to hear it now.
The MP3
and lyrics are also available in the Discography section of
NanciGriffith.com.
BIG BLUE BALL OF WAR
----------------------
To all my fans,
As many of you know, my ex-husband is a Vietnam Veteran. What you may
not
know is that almost every one of the male members in my family, with the
exception of my father whose age fell between wars, has served in the
military at one time or another.
As a matter of personal belief, I have maintained a stance as a Pacifist
since my teenage years. An individual can not be a Vegetarian just
between
meals, and I can not be a Pacifist just between wars. I am against any
war,
anywhere, anytime. My wisdom may not be yours, and my life choice may
not be
yours.
I believe in Ghandi, who soldiered a nonviolent revolution of
Independence
through the making of salt from the sea within the twentieth century. I
believe in Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., who led us all, in the later
part of
that century to the light, through Ghandi's teachings. And I believe
that
nonviolence is a viable possibility for all humanity, and is the only
hope
for the dream of the future for all our children. I am Catholic by
faith,
and I am Buddhist in belief that this life is all-inclusive, and no one
is
left out, and no one is an infidel.
Having said this, it is not and has never been my intention to deny
support
to our troops out there on the line. My support, prayers and hope will
always lie with our men and women out there in Khaki, and with all of
the
civilians upon this Big Blue Ball. I am, and will continue to stand
here as
a patriotic American.
With prayers for peace, someday,
- Nanci Griffith
Visit us online!
susan in alameda
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NN: Enough (NNC)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 23:24:07 +0000
From: Graham Shipley (gshipley@perioikos.u-net.com>
Bill, I happen not to wish to air my own views at present, on an issue
that
is so fraught and ambivalent. But I am really appreciating the chance to
read the different views offered.
Graham
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NN: RE: Enough...
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 13:33:45 +1200
From: "Ken Stiffler" (ksmsc@kmsx.net>
Bill wrote:
>> Bruce began this with a comment that it had been a long time since he
>> had
started a political discussion on this list. I hope it's a LOT LONGER
before
he starts another one.
((
Well, you SAID that NanciNet had been awfully quiet lately! :)
Sorry to have contributed. It's hard for me to keep my mouth zippered,
or my
fingers crossed.
But I'm sure there are plenty of people on the list who would be happy
to
have one piece of their lives that is NOT taken up by war discussion.
It's a
shame that Nanci has taken a breather, so we don't have much to discuss
on
topic. Now would be a great time for one of her novels to be published.
:)
Anyone have comments on any of the Poet In My TV Videos? Mine are in
storage, so I can't comment very well at the moment.
Ken "wishing I could watch the video of Nanci singing 'Old Land, You Are
Holy' on Nashville Now right about now" Stiffler
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NN: Re: Enough...
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 21:40:49 -0500
From: BMiller224@aol.com
ill writes:
(( Bruce began this with a comment that it had been a long time since
he had
started a political discussion on this list. >>
Uh, not to quibble (who me?), but I think I said a music-and-politics
issue.
And, for whatever reason, artists and performers have felt moved to
speak
out on both sides of the war issue. My original post was about a
country
music producer who got fired from her job because she responded - in
private
e-mails - to a column by CHARLIE DANIELS that, ironically, was
complaining
about entertainers taking a position on the upcoming war.
And I also pointed out that the embarrassment that CHARLIE DANIELS
suffered
because of it is a good illustration of why it's a risk for performers
to
take positions on an immediate, controversial issue. I don't fault
them for
*not* doing so for just that reason.
But it's also one more sign of the pitiful state of the
Nashville/country
music business. The Dixie Chicks incident just makes me shake my head
in
amazement. This is one of the most popular, money-making acts in the
whole
country music field right now. And one of the best-quality ones to get
a
lot of airplay. And radio stations are taking them off the play lists
because one of them made a mild verbal swipe at the President?
I saw a news item a couple of days ago about a couple of teenagers at a
rodeo in Texas who got into a fight that started because one of them
didn't
stand with the rest of the crowd for the playing of...Lee Greenwood's
"I'm
Proud to Be An American." How ridiculous is that? Did Congress just
adopt
that as the new National Anthem?
If this kind of poisonous spirit is actually starting to drive business
decisions in the Nashville music industry, any hope that the "O Brother"
trend will open up mainstream country music stations to the kind of
music we
associate with Nanci, Emmylou Harris, Steve Earle and Lucinda Williams
looks
more forelorn than ever.
I really wasn't trying to start a discussion about measuring Iraqi
weapons
stockpiles. But what I did bring up is certainly something that's very
much
in the country music news these days.
So I don't see why this should be considered a radioactive topic,
especially
for the unmoderated list.
Bruce Miller
Oakland CA
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: NN: Re: Enough...
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 18:29:30 EST
From: ConorMG@aol.com
In a message dated 17/03/2003 23:16:43 GMT Standard Time,
tonycox@pacific.net.au writes:
> Bill, you're right, of course, but hell - this is the most interesting
> the
> list has been for months!! Back to inconsequential observations about
> nothing much in particular while the world sits on the brink of the
> abyss,
> I suppose;)
>
> So what's Nanci up to these days, anyway??
I agree. Nanci is political, though not on the left side of the road, I
heard her say at the Albert Hall. We had seemed to run out of
interesting
things to say, until suddenly the sainted Natalie brought out the big
guns,
and it was as if the Nancinet had been resurrected. I know the list is
here
to talk about music, but surely music is sometimes about the real
world, and
our world is very interesting at the moment, so can we not use this
wonderful forum to voice our passionately- held views and hear those of
others whose views we are interested in?
Conor
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: NN: Re: Enough...
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 22:39:25 EST
From: REBeffa@aol.com
In a message dated 3/17/2003 7:29:35 PM Pacific Standard Time,=20
ConorMG@aol.com writes:
> I agree. Nanci is political, though not on the left side of the road, I
> heard her say at the Albert Hall. We had seemed to run out of
> interesting
> things to say, until suddenly the sainted Natalie brought out the big
guns,
> and it was as if the Nancinet had been resurrected.
> I know the list is here to talk about music, but surely music is
> sometimes
> about the real world, and our world is very interesting at the moment,
> so can we not use this wonderful forum to voice our passionately- held
> views and hear those of others whose views we are interested in?
I think there is a very thin line between discussing the politics of
Nanci's
music and opinions, such as has been set out in the letter of hers just
posted, and the desire for members of the list to take it up to make it
a
launching ground for opinions of their own. Politics on non political
email
lists is almost always detrimental to everyone's health because it
ALWAYS
gets out of control, imho.
Frankly I didn't take offense about what was posted and wondered but
didn't
know when Bill might feel compelled to step in. I think Bill was
playing it
safe, to stop it before it became a problem. I also think that maybe
Bruce
has become a scapegoat because of past things. I didn't read every one
of
the recent posts by all, so maybe I missed something really nasty.
There must be a way to pick up on Nanci's message and relate it to her
songs
and topics she has included in the past without making it a personal
political diatribe. Same with the Dixie's.
Ron
back to the lurk
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NN: From Kate to Nanci to Laurie...
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 08:32:53 -0500
From: davidtsteere (davidtsteere@yahoo.com>
Thanks to whoever recommended Laurie McClain's THE TRUMPET VINE: A
TRIBUTE
TO KATE WOLF a few weeks ago. What a wonderful affinity this
singer/songwriter has for Kate's songs. It can be ordered at her
website,
www.lauriemclain.com.
Get it and don't forget a box of kleenex or a handkerchief. You will
definitely need it. Talk about goosebumps and teary eyes... Stuart
Duncan
play a gorgeous fiddle accompaniment on over half of the fourteen cuts.
And
Nina Gerber appears, as well. Wow! The best new cd I've heard this
year.
david
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: NN: NanciNews: New Nanci Song
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 22:48:54 -0500
From: mike@neatness.com
Cool! I've compiled a list of some of these new songs
http://www.neatness.com/antiwar.shtml
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NN: Big Blue Ball of War
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 21:10:55 -0500
From: kenn lippert (lippert@www.nauticom.net>
I'm sure many of you have already been to www.nancigriffith.com and
downloaded her new song "Big Blue Ball of War". I guess the topic of
our
previous discussion has weighed heavily on Nanci's mind as well.
This song strikes me as inconsistent at its core. The music is
reminiscent
of some of the weaker tracks from "Blue Roses From the Moon". I dunno,
maybe I was expecting something that would actually change the world
overnight. I guess I forget she is a singer and a songwriter, even if
brilliant at both, but still cannot halt tanks, remove dictators, or
change
the minds of those who decide the fate of the world.
Here are the lyrics,
BIG BLUE BALL OF WAR
(NANCI GRIFFITH)
IN 1914 THIS BALL WAS AT WAR
IT WENT FROM BELGIUM ON THROUGH IRELAND
THE CONGO, THEN BACK HOME
THIS BIG BLUE BALL OF WAR
SPUN ON ITS OWN
SPINNING HISTORY IN LINES OF BLOOD
WHEN NOT A SOUL FELL OFF
CHORUS:
WE ALL RIDE ON (WE ALL RIDE)
THIS BIG BLUE BALL OF WAR
SOULS WITH TICKETS
THROUGH THE VEIL, WE RIDE ON
WE ALL RIDE ON (WE ALL RIDE)
THIS BIG BLUE BALL OF WAR
WE CHOOSE TO SPIN AROUND
AND RIDE
THIS BIG BLUE BALL OF WAR
ALMOST A CENTURY, THIS BLOOD HAS FLOWED
WE'VE KILLED OUR MEN OF PEACE
AROUND THIS BALL
AND REFUSED TO HEAR THEIR GHOSTS
WE SPEND OUR DESTINIES
IN DEEDS OF HATE
HUMANITY UPON THIS BALL
IS JUST A BLOODY FALL FROM GRACE
CHORUS
A REFORMATION MIGHT JUST SAVE US ALL
A VOICE OF HARMONY AND OPEN HEART
WHERE THE WOMEN TEACH THE SONG
THESE MEN OF EVIL DEED CAN BE PROVEN WRONG
THIS BALL COULD SPIN IF WE JOIN HAND TO HAND
SO NOT A SOUL FALLS OFF...
CHORUS
(She still types with the caps lock on)
I don't understand why "not a soul fell off" in the first verse, but in
the
last we need to hold hands to prevent it. Is this referring to the
difference between a U.N. sanctioned action like Korea or Kosovo, and
the
unilateral US/UK (do Spain, Bulgaria, and Oz really count? -sorry
Aussies,
but i think you know what i mean) event which we are now counting down
to?
As this "coalition" unleashes the dogs of war, pray (or wish) for peace.
Love your neighbor. Look into the eyes of strangers and see the
humanity
there. Visit the sick. Smile at kid who hands you your cheeseburger.
Support your fellow citizens in harm's way and their loved ones left at
home. Show kindness to the visitor and the lonely. Give your old
clothes
to a homeless shelter rather than tossing them in the trash. Show your
neighbors and your government that compassion works, that love is strong
enough.
And vote.
kenn "no poet in my window, the plastic and duct tape keep her out"
lippert
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: NN: Big Blue Ball of War
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 19:58:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Shawn Kimbro (shawn@mountainsoul.net>
Thank you Nanci Griffith, for this song, and for
teaching so many of us *not* to be complacent. Thank
you Donate for your words of passion. Thank you Bill
Page for following your gut to keep controversy off
this list and for doing such an exceptional job of
maintaining relevant discussion through these troubled
times. Our nation has changed to a point where, to
me, it is no longer recognizable. I am ashamed of our
leaders, and those who so blindly follow. But I am
proud of our artists, proud of those who aren't afraid
to voice their opinions, as poetry or prose, through
the blue veil, soon to be blood red.
Peace shall overcome.... someday,
-Shawn
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NN: Big Blue Ball
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 23:01:15 -0500
From: BMiller224@aol.com
I see that Nanci considers herself a Catholic.
> From her statement at NanciGriffith.com about "Big Blue Ball Of War,"
(( I am Catholic by faith, and I am Buddhist in belief that this life is
all-inclusive, and no one is left out, and no one is an infidel. >>
This is a good Catholic perspective:
We spend our destiny in deeds of hate
Humanity on this bloody ball
Is just a bloody fall from grace
It was striking to me that she starts this song with a reference to the
First World War, because I just today finished a book by John Dos
Passos on
the Great War (*Mr. Wilson's War* is the title).
But I don't think CHARLIE DANIELS will approve of her song.
For my part, it strikes me on the first couple of hearings as one of the
best she's done in a while.
Bruce "Ich ehre Joschka Fischer" Miller
Oakland CA
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: NN: Big Blue Ball
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 20:22:51 -0800
From: Kenneth Johnson (beeso@pop.charter.net>
BMiller rote:
> I see that Nanci considers herself a Catholic.
>
>> From her statement at NanciGriffith.com about "Big Blue Ball Of War."
>
> (( I am Catholic by faith, and I am Buddhist in belief that this life
> is
> all-inclusive, and no one is left out, and no one is an infidel. >>
maybe, just maybe, or it strikes my mind time to time anyways, maybe
faith
and "belief" ought to be expelled frum thot, mebbe these are merely
stances
irrelevant to the real
or mebbe knot - - -
"barmaid, oh barmaid" (now whur'd she go?)
kenneth
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NN: Port a toilet story..
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 01:06:03 -0600
From: "Lorrie Chase" (lchase@webshoppe.net>
Ok Bill, you said it was slow so I'm sharing this story that took place
in
Birmingham Alabama last year at Nanci's concert in the park. Why have I
waited so long, well...
My husband and I are building house (this is relevant) and we have a
Port-a-let (blue traveling bathroom for those of you who are not
construction savvy) in the front yard. It reminds me every day of the
last
Nanci concert I went to. During the intermission I had to answer
natures
call and ventured off to find Port- a- toilet row. After finding it,
holding my nose for what seemed like an eternity and trying to not touch
anything, I heard a familiar voice behind me. Somewhat stunned, I
climbed
up onto the stool of the toilet and looked out the vent at the top.
Sure
enough there was Nanci sitting on a bench with the Blue Moon Orchestra.
I
briefly considered saying something to her and them realized that she
might
not respond to a talking Port- a- let and if she did I was afraid it
would
not be kind (Plus I would them be forced to breath).
So I calmly went out and around the back of toilet row, called her
name she
looked and then looked away BUT when I said to her that the folks from
the
Nanci net LOVED her, she turned back smiled and said "Thanks so much".
I
skipped back to my seat, opened a new bottle of wine and enjoyed the
rest of
the concert having gained a new respect for mobile public bathrooms.
Hey I did not say it was a good story, but I've held it in long enough
plus
Bill seemed to want some material.
Lorrie "did I mention it's 1:00 am" Chase
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NN: Nanci nails her colours to the mast
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 03:19:56 -0000
From: "Leon Stolarski" (leon.stolarski@ntlworld.com>
Hi All
Just got word from NanciGriffith.com that Nanci has written and
recorded a
new song, "Big Blue Ball Of War", which is available to hear NOW on the
Discography section of the site. On first hearing, it is a lovely tune.
I
haven't had time to digest the lyrics yet, but the sentiment is quite
clear
enough, from the title alone, I think! And most of our views would
appear
(from recent postings) to coincide with that sentiment. Go and listen.
Love and Mercy.
Leon "ashamed I voted for Blair" Stolarski
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NN: The Suicide of the Music Business Continues
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 17:28:01 -0500
From: BMiller224@aol.com
I won't belabor this. The story speaks for itself. Screams, actually.
Dixie Chicks axed by Clear Channel
http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2003/03/17/
daily14.
html
Our politicians like to call America "the greatest country in the
history of
the world."
It looks like we may also be collectively becoming the most thin-skinned
group of people on the planet.
Bruce Miller
Oakland CA
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NN: Re: The Suicide of the Music Business Continues
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 23:15:15 -0000
From: John Graveling" (kai21@dial.pipex.com>
It's interesting as Clear Channel are also the promoters of the Dixie
Chicks
tours, here in the U.K. I do not know about the rest of the world, but
I bet
they aren't dropping out from that, as they will be getting their huge
chunk
of the tour proceeds. If they still do represent the Chicks as tour
promoters then I think their stance is hypocritical. As for democracy I
think both the U.S.A. and British governments have put a new bent on the
word, because it seemingly no longer exists in the way I understand it.
John "living in England with it's puppet leader" Graveling
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NN: Re: Enough!
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 09:16:31 -0500
From: DvBGardner@genelogic.com
My apologies, Bill, and fellow nancinetters for my outburst yesterday.
You
are right, this is a chat list about Nanci Griffith and her music. And
there
are certain rules of conduct one must adhere to if we want to be part of
this list.
But in times like these, often old standards and rules don't seem to
make
sense anymore. In times like these, we tend to focus on the urgency and
horror of what is awaiting our brothers and sisters out there. In times
like
these, we stand helplessly on the sidelines and watch our world turned
upside down. In times like these, we tend to find the usual chat about
what
clothes Ms.G. was wearing and whether the timbre of her voice was
stronger
than usual, etc...to be a bit less relevant than usual (forgive me, my
aNGel friends!). In times like these, we tend to look for people to
find an
echo with.
We were allowed for a brief period of time to voice our concerns, hurt,
horror, etc. after the 9-11 attacks. In times like those, we huddled
together and gave each other comfort and solace and tried to make sense
of
it all.
We are a very diverse group and very fortunate to be spread all over the
earth -- what better venue than this one to get input and ideas from
those
on the "other side" of the war line in times like these? Maybe we can
understand better, maybe we can contribute to a step closer to peace?
Many nancinetters are of the age that we remember very well what
happened
with Vietnam. Some of us served there, some of us were very active in
the
peace movement. It was a war that inflicted many wounds so deep that
they
still haven't healed to this day. And the prospect of yet another war
just
like Vietnam, is opening many of those wounds again.
Many of us have formed good friendships among the nancinetters, or at
least
have found that there is a preponderance of kindred spirits. In times
like
these, we tend to flock toward those kindred spirits and want to vent,
to
brood, to ponder, seek comfort and understanding of what's facing all
of us.
This is not just about the U.S. facing war. The whole world is affected,
thus many of our friends on this very nancinet. Isn't it understandable
that
we tend to reach out to each other in times like these?
Again, my apologies for abusing this venue for my brief outcry against
this
war. I shall go back to lurkdom and come out again when I have
something
meaningful to say about our dear Miss Nanci. Those who have been in
touch
with me off-line, please continue to do so. I do so want to connect with
others across the pond and hear your take on this. Many of you also
have
friends or sons and daughters of friends who were sent over there to
face
such potentially brutal horror. And my fellow songwriters out there --
how
about we put our heads together and come up with a compilation of
original
songs for peace? The Vietnam era brought forth a huge wealth of
wonderful
songs -- most of them seem eerily relevant again today. Here is hoping
that today's songwriters will come up with a similar meaningful genre of
music stemming from this crisis today.
Pray for peace,
Donate
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: NN: Darryl Worley Interview and Album Info (NNC)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 06:33:57 -0500
From: "flcma99" (flcma99@cfl.rr.com>
With the hours counting down, it is important that we remember the
troops
who will likely find themselves engaged in conflict soon. Haven't seen
any
mention of Darryl Worley's song here, so this offers another artists
perspective:
> From Hannity and Colmes interview:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,80786,00.html
Album Press Release:
http://dreamworksnashville.com/
news.htm?nws_id=1295&CID=548a6ecef56c10ab3919
a0a6be2728cc
Please Pray for our World and our Troops.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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