// If you don't want political comment, go ahead and hit the 
// delete button now. This digest is almost equally split between 
// those who think any such discussion shouldn't take place here,
// and those who think, if not here, where?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: NN: Censorship
   Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 09:15:08 EST
   From: GORDON1717@aol.com

Just like to jump out of lurkdom to say that any kind of censorship at a
time like this, however benign should be stomped on with both boots. Do we
think that it's okay for Nanci to express her anti war sentiments through a
new song available on her website yet any posts deemed unmusical and too
political here should be excised from the digest.

I used to have such respect for Donate and it was boosted way up there by
her posting here yesterday however, now that she has apologised should I
have no respect for her anymore? (Chill out D. I'm only making a point). 

Sometimes it feels like we are stuck in a porta potty staring through the
slats at the real Nanci outside and...yeah, you get the point.

What I really wanted to say was ...

WAY TO GO NANCI! NEW UNRECYCLED MATERIAL AND WE DON'T EVEN HAVE TO PUT MONEY
IN THE HANDS OF THOSE THIEVING BASTARD RECORD COMPANIES TO GET IT!

Now let's have a solo acoustic record of new songs recorded with only a
guitar and a voice, let the songs be relevant and let's see Ms. G kick ass
again like she used to!

Just my opinion, don't shoot the messenger.
Gordon 
(plop - sound of me slipping back into the porta potty of lurkdom)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: NN: Chicks Boycott Overblown
   Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 09:46:58 EST
   From: RoanInish@aol.com

According to this article, the big Dixie Chicks boycott has been largely
exaggerated and maybe a PR campaign by a few stations:

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/newsarticle.asp?nid=17757

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: NN: Re: Big Blue Ball
   Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 09:05:41 -0600
   From: "Hank Van Slyke" (chevelle@pnx.com>

Howdy, Nancinetters!
  It's a beautiful spring day on the Gulf Coast, blue skies, no clouds,
t-shirt temperatures.  Flowers are blooming and my mother-in-law wants me to
come over and dig a new planter bed around their mailbox.  It's hard to
think of anything like war, it must be far removed from this place.
  Nanci's new song, "Big Blue Ball", is another masterpiece that moves my
soul.  It is kind of in line with topical songs of Pete Seeger and Woody
Guthrie, yet beautiful enough to be played at anytime.  It was generous of
her to give it to everyone on mp3.  It's fitting to use modern media to
spread a new song instead of having it spread from one guitar to another
across the land, like in Woody Guthrie's day.  I wonder what kind of song
Phil Ochs would have written if he were still around today; he was noted for
biting sarcasm and sharp wit.
  This is a gentle song of reason, and I hope it gets a lot of listeners.

Carry on, and peace be with you.

Hank "dirt shoveler" Van Slyke

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: NN: NEW MUSIC!
   Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 07:09:26 -0800 (PST)
   From: JAMES WARD (jward39212@yahoo.com>

Wanted to give all the Nancinetters interested in new music a "heads-up".  

The new album by Deana Carter - I'm Just A Girl is
f-a-n-t-a-s-t-i-c.  It was released yesterday on
Arista Records.  It's modern country music but it
retains just the right amount of southern drawl.  I
love it!

Also, Lucinda Williams new disc "World Without Tears"
is due on April 8th.  Advance buzz this is her best
album in years. I can hardly imagine that...but we'll
see!

Fleetwood Mac - Say You Will is due on April 15th.  I
being a die-hard Fleetwood Mac fan was shocked to
learn tickets for their upcoming tour are $135 +
Ticketmaster fees + you have to shell out another $60
to join the fan club in order to take advantage of
advanced ticket sales.  If you are purchasing two
tickets this would make each ticket around $185.00.  I
say NO WAY!  I think Fleetwood Mac, Dixie Chicks and
Eagles just to name a few should be ashamed of the new
"fan club" gimmicks to put more money in their
pockets.  After all, haven't we fans paid enough.  Is
it never enough?

What are you opinions on this practice?

James n' Jackson, MS

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: NN: Please!
   Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 09:29:32 -0600
   From: "Marty Malone" (mmalone@cvm.tamu.edu>

For the love of mike can all y'all that want to discuss politics please,
please do it somewhere else.

I am a huge Nanci fan and a very proud Native Texan. I have been a
subscriber to this list for sometime. Sometimes it is the only way I know
when and where Nanci will be playing and I will be able to grab tickets
early enough to get good seats.  Call me silly, that's why I subscribed to
the list in the first place.

I think it is absolutely great that there are concerned people out there
that actually read and keep up with current events enough to be able to
voice an opinion.  I just don't want to read about it here. 

This is supposed to be a pleasant experience.

And to put the icing on this cake, because I was raised as a proper young
Texan, my mother always told me, "You should never discuss religion or
politics at a party.  It's not polite."

Can we please get back to Nanci and her music.  Please.

Marty "that dog won't hunt" Malone

P.S. Yes, I do have opinions.  LOTS of them.  But I won't discuss them with
you at a party.  

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: NN: Re: Please!
   Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 22:31:13 -0000
   From: "Geoff Hall" (geoff.t.hall@btinternet.com>


Hear, hear, Marty.

I've just sat through Tony Blair on the BBC - very persuasive. I have heard
Nanci and her opinions - again very persuasive.

However, I though Nanci-land was supposed to be about music. Let's talk
about her music. Anyone who has other views should start up a new debate on
the website and if we want to know about it, we can get to it. 

Over and out.

Geoff

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: NN: Re: Re: Please!
   Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 18:41:32 +1100
   From: "Tony Cox" (tonycox@pacific.net.au>

> However, I though Nanci-land was supposed to be about music. 
> Let's talk about her music.

Fair enough, strictly speaking - but it's a fact that in the weeks prior to
Bruce Miller's "political" post, the output from this list had slowed to a
mere trickle.  In fact, if you'd further eliminated those posts that were
not Nanci-specific, we'd have been in the grip of a virtual drought!

What has made this list a lot more fun to be a part of than other lists I've
belonged to (and now no longer bother with) is the rich diversity, vitality
and intellect of its members, many of whom have shared their stories and
views with the rest of us.  At various times we have been moved, stimulated
and entertained by posts on a canvas of topics as broad as life itself.  And
how many off-list friendships (cyber or otherwise) would have developed had
we limited the discussion to Nanci and her music - especially in these
comparatively lean years of Nanci output?

Where we go from here depends on whether we see the list as purely a forum
for views on Ms Griffith and her work, or whether we see ourselves as a
group  of people united by an admiration of Ms Griffith and her work who
like to get together and connect with like-minded souls in a variety of ways
(within reason) - but with Nanci as the primary focal point to return to.
For me, life has been made richer through the opportunity to share in the
wealth of talent and ideas - and most importantly, humanity - of this list's
members.  Bill Page has by and large steered us in a course that has allowed
the list to flourish without it getting out of control.  It would be a shame
to squander this precious asset in these bewildering and alienating times.

Tony - feeling all new-agey

----------------------------------------------------------------------


Subject: Re: NN: Re: Please!
   Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 23:54:46 EST
   From: ICYBLUEHART@aol.com

> Hear, hear, Marty.
> However, I though Nanci-land was supposed to be about music. Let's talk
> about her music. Anyone who has other views should start up a new 
> debate on the website and if we want to know about it, we can get to it.

I am in agreement with you gentlemen. A few days ago I joined what I thought
was a network that would feed my Nanci addiction. I am now feeling like I
joined a political debate. I shall stick around a few more days and see if I
see any actual Nanci news or just continued political debate. In which case
I shall seek Nanci News elsewhere.

Sam 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: NN: Please!
   Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 09:09:08 EST
   From: Poetmuse@aol.com

ICYBLUEHART@aol.com writes:

> I am in agreement with you gentlemen. A few days ago 
> I joined what I thought was a network that would feed 
> my Nanci addiction. I am now feeling like I joined a
> political debate. I shall stick around a few more days 
> and see if I see any actual Nanci news or just continued
> political debate. In which case I shall seek Nanci News elsewhere.

Considering you did just join the list, please accept this as a welcome.
However, please also be advised that this list is far from being just a
political arena and that the people contained on this list are kind,
generous to a fault, intelligent and full of musical wealth and knowledge.
To assume the first couple days of your enrollment indicate the general
traffic of this list represents, is naive. You have joined our little family
when the world is at war- whether we want to accept it or not. This is a
group of well meaning people and I for one, a person who has been on this
list since 1995, welcome the thought provoking conversations that go on.
If, indeed, all you are after is "news" then yes, perhaps you should go
elsewhere- however, if you want to join a community of wonderful people
dedicated to LIFE and the music of Nanci Griffith then by all means, pull up
a seat and have a cup of Joe.  You are more than welcome.

Let's just all remember that if you don't like something or are tired of
seeing it- hit the delete button. None of us have to read what is being
discussed and that is the basic truth.  We all have free will and we all
have free speech. Let's not lose sight of the fact that sometimes a simple
string of words can have a gigantic impact. 

-Christina "tired of the crabbiness" Myers

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: NN: NG and politics
   Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 01:23:23 -0000
   From: "keith.farman" (keith.farman@ntlworld.com>

Sir

First - the appropriateness of political discussion on a website devoted to
a singer. Well the essence of why we are drawn to NG is I think that she is
committed to her art. We can respect her without agreeing with everything
she says as long as she is sincere. It has to do with honesty. If I identify
with a NG song or lyric I want to feel that it is because we share
something, not because she's a cute marketer who knows how to sell. (e.g.
Shania Twain et al).

I don't take my political views from NG - or anyone else - but I am
interested in what she feels and has to say about such issues because I feel
an affinity with other important things where her voice strikes a chord with
me. I have for example, as a Brit, always been a little thrown by the
ever-present LBJ rosette. Now I accept that LBJ in fact was an immensely
effective politician who made practical political reality of many of
Kennedy's, mere aspirations to liberal legislation. But still--Vietnam? I
live with it and give the benefit of the doubt--because she has earned it.

Iraq is a deeply complex moral dilemma. And the apparent contradictions in
NG's message to her fans reflect this. After all we are all opposed to the
horrors of war in general. There are totally justified moral arguments for
displacing Saddam. But there are equally self-interested arguments too. The
US and the UK indeed most of the West live in a petroleum culture (and I was
20 years in the oil industry). Access to oil is essential for our whole way
of life for the foreseeable future. Pro-American Europeans also feel unease
at the Bush administration's arrogant dismissal of Kyoto, etc etc. One
quarter of the world's daily consumption of oil is consumed within the US at
retail prices Europeans envy. The Iraq 'adventure' one can argue, is a
pre-emptive strike against the de-stabilising of oil supplies especially
from the regime-vulnerable Saudi Arabia.

NG's love of and passion for her home state of Texas is coming home to
roost. To feel deeply rooted in Texas cannot mean that one supports every
Texan. I am deeply rooted in the East of the UK - Suffolk and Norfolk -
renowned for their bloody-minded independence but I can not blind myself to
their intrinsic narrowness at times. It seems that NG is coming to terms
with this uncomfortable truth.

Some Brits take a patronising attitude to G W Bush's problems with language.
For me it is not snobbishness but substantive worry. Wittgenstein said that
where you have a significant error of grammar you have an error of thought.
GW' s use of the term 'crusade soon after 9/11 displayed a desperate
cultural, political ignorance which has lived to haunt him. Rumsfeld's and
Bush's jingoistic, hubristic use of 'shock and awe' etc undermines our
belief in the need to oppose Saddam's repressive, odious regime. We are
defined by what we are for...not what we are against.

Troubled Brit - Keith Farman

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: NN: Music & Politics
   Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 21:59:48 -0500
   From: kenn lippert (lippert@www.nauticom.net>

On Wednesday, March 19, 2003, at 08:36 PM, Ken Gipson wrote:

> Musical artists are not unique to making their feelings known. 
> Best known perhaps is Barbra Striesand. She has been a long time
> liberal democrat promoting causes and raising money for 
> the Democratic Party and their candidates. 

Perhaps I am treading on elitist ground here, but i have to say this.

First of all of course I completely agree with Ken (fated to suffer life
with only one "n") that everyone deserves, no is GUARANTEED, the right to
peaceably speak their mind on any subject, political, religious, economic,
whatever.  No one should ever be vilified for disagreeing with the president
or any member of government (nor should all peace protest news coverage
emphasize the minority of events that turn violent to cast that shadow of
hypocrisy on all peace-minded people).  But I am just this conceited about
my musical tastes and political opinions, that i perceive a difference
between an artist who has an established track record of producing art that
deals with social and political issues in a thoughtful, perceptive, creative
way (Nanci, Kate Campbell, Bob Dylan, Woody Guthrie, Bono), and an artist
who achieves fame only because of raw musical or acting talent, (or luck),
and then uses that fame to build a soapbox higher than most of us can ever
hope to achieve from which to state their opinions. 

I certainly have nothing but respect for Barbara Streisand's musical
abilities - no one can (could) sing like her, and I am sure Martin Sheen's
acting abilities are formidable, but are their views somehow deserving of
more respect simply because they are rich and famous?  Whereas Nanci or Kate
have spent their lifetimes observing the human condition and exploring and
communicating (more than words alone ever could) its beauties, horrors,
contradictions, falls, and graces.  It is a certainty that if Babs were to
appear on O'Reilly - he would eat her up.  But if Kate Campbell, or Nanci
debated they would bring an eloquence, perception, and nuance to the
discussion that would make for a much more convincing position. I think that
sometimes "stars" do more harm than good by inviting criticism from the
opposing side because of their limited (if well intentioned) grasp of the
complexities of an issue.

Perhaps I am an intellectual elitist - it wouldn't be the first time i have
been accused of that.  But I just wonder if this thought has occurred to
anyone else.

Hey Bill - i got through the whole thing without insulting the moron!

kenn

(dropping the quote thing again, because the world has fundamentally 
changed - again)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: NN: Music & Politics
   Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 16:04:05 +1100
   From: "Tony Cox" (tonycox@pacific.net.au>

Kenn wrote:
> i perceive a difference between an artist who has an established
> track record of producing art that deals with social and political
> issues in a thoughtful, perceptive, creative way (Nanci, Kate
> Campbell, Bob Dylan, Woody Guthrie, Bono),


And let's not forget Bruce Springsteen, who cancelled a press conference
here in Melbourne the other day - the day that war broke out - and then let
the music do the talking by opening his show that night with an acoustic
"Born In The USA" and then ripping into "War (What Is It Good For?)"
followed by a storming version of "The Rising".   Broooooooooce....

Tony - more in awe than shock.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: NN: One more thought...
   Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 19:02:47 +1100
   From: "Tony Cox" (tonycox@pacific.net.au>

It just occurred to me that the posts that seem to be beyond the limits of
what's acceptable to many are those where not only is there no Nanci content
- there is no reference to *any* matters musical.  Thus (to me, anyway) the
Dixie Chicks or Darryl Worley discussions seem at least semi-pertinent,
whereas a statement on the war without a musical reference doesn't.  What
does anyone else think?

Tony - "head full of ideas..." at the moment

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: NN: RE: One more thought...
   Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 20:38:51 -0500
   From: "flcma99" (flcma99@cfl.rr.com>

I agree with Tony.  One of the joys of this list has been the diverse
musical backgrounds and insights, like the year end Top 10 list, that are
shared here.  I like artist that I can relate to as "intelligent" people -
or at least "regular" people.  I may not always agree with them, but the
insights make them human.  It is also nice to share our different musical
backgrounds, since I have loyalty to no particular genre - to which my CD
collection and Visa bills can attest.

In fact, tonight I am going to be switching the TV off and throwing some new
CDs in the player.  Let's all do the same and compare notes.

Jason - "FLCMA99"

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: NN: OT - Christopher Guest, Plucking Strings for the Camera Again
   Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 15:53:43 -0800
   From: "Bill MacKay" (macbill@pacifier.com>

Hi, I'm Bill, and I've been a silent member of our community practically
since the start of Nancinet.  I just read the following article in another
group and thought it might interest some folks. 

Bill MacKay
Vancouver, Washington
___________________________________________________________

Christopher Guest, Plucking Strings for the Camera Again
By ELVIS MITCHELL


AUSTIN, TEX., March 16 - Folk music is a tough subject for a movie; many
people cringe or change the channel when one of those folk reunion specials
appears during a public television pledge week. But such considerations
didn't slow the writer, director and actor Christopher Guest. His latest
project, "A Mighty Wind," another of his loose, conversational, lifelike
films ("I hate the word mockumentary," Mr. Guest said with a sigh, "that's
not my word"), is set in the world of folkies and builds toward a reunion
during a public television special.

"Well, people could've said, 'I don't know anything about dogs' before they
went to 'Best in Show,' " Mr. Guest said, referring to his under-the-tent
look at dog shows. "I don't think that's important. What is important is if
it's funny. I hope the songs say something engaging about the characters in
the context of the movie. That same way the songs in 'This Is Spinal Tap'
were about those guys. I hope people don't think I sit at home all day
listening to heavy metal. You make the songs the best you can, make them in
the context of all that. The lyrics are odd, obviously. But if you hear them
out of context, you think, 'That's a real group.' "

Mr. Guest, 55, talked about his work in an interview here on March 12, a few
hours before a showing of "A Mighty Wind" during the film festival part of
Austin's South by Southwest Conference. (The picture lent itself to the
conference's concentration on acoustic musicianship.) The crucial element in
all of his behind-the-scenes comedies - "Waiting for Guffman," "Best in
Show" and now "A Mighty Wind" - is that he allows the characters their
dignity, and understands how important it is to all of them.

Despite the comedy that comes from people with such a desperate need to
reveal themselves verbally that they will say anything, Mr. Guest respects
them. "It's why I don't - can't - watch reality TV," he said, wincing. "It
all seems to be about suffering and embarrassment." He also refuses to
subject his creations to the lithe cruelty that was the hallmark of the
National Lampoon stage shows in which he plied his trade as a young man.

"We've really worked at making this movie inclusive," he said. "It's not
about humiliating the audience or the characters. There was a sense when I
was at the Lampoon, and I was one of the younger people there, of `Boy, are
we hot stuff.' It was a very heady experience to be paid during the early
70's in New York for doing what we loved and having our own recording
studio. That was a very youthful state of mind, though, an arrogance that
comes out of youth." 

"This movie, I hope, is not arrogant because it's not about that, at this
point in my life," he continued. "It's not a considered thing, not that
`Well, if you're smart enough and hip enough, maybe you can keep up' message
to the audience. I hope it doesn't have that edge to it, and  people find
there's something they like in the show."

It's easy to overlook Mr. Guest's deference toward his characters because
the pictures he has directed are such detailed, multilayered fictions. He
has that same respect for conversation; he treats words like valuable
resources, material not to be wasted. This quality seems to contradict the
characters and material he has created for his movies, which are filled with
people tripping over their own tongues to say the right thing. A good
illustration would be Nigel Tufnel, the blankly pompous guitarist of "This
Is Spinal Tap," the classic lifelike parody of metalhead rock musicians that
Mr. Guest created with Michael McKean, Harry Shearer and Rob Reiner. (Mr.
McKean and Mr. Shearer have rejoined him for "A Mighty Wind.")

Although the comedy of his films grows out of the characters' inability to
articulate their thoughts and feelings precisely, Mr. Guest has no such
problem. He is specific about what makes his films play, despite their
improvisatory air. He brings up an instance from "A Mighty Wind": "I went to
school with Arlo Guthrie. And I was the mandolin player in his band. And he
called me and he said, `Can I be in this movie?' And I had to say no. It was
hard because he's a very sweet guy, but we had to create our own world here.
Because if real people are in the movie, the  audience is pulled out of the
picture. It was the same way in `Tap.' No one else is mentioned in the
movie; it's our own universe.

"And the same is true for this movie. I know a lot of people who would've
been cool for it. Loudon Wainwright, who's a great musician and a really
good actor and a friend of mine, wanted to do it. Ry Cooder said, `Can I
just be the doorman at the hotel?' Here's this guy who's my idol, and he
wants to just stand there? It's not going to be fun or interesting for him,
and it's really not going to work for the movie, either. He did get to play
with us onstage in L.A., though."

Mr. Guest, along with Mr. McKean and Mr. Shearer, make up one of the groups
assembled for the film's folk extravaganza, appearing as a trio called the
Folksmen. "Eat at Joe's," the band's flat-footed attempt at drollery, was
first performed in a 1984 sketch on "Saturday Night Live" during Mr.
Shearer's second stint as a cast member. "I guess that means it's now old
enough to be a real folk song," Mr. Guest said. "What's funny is when we did
a few shows in Los Angeles, the first night we got our laughs. And the
second night, a friend of mine overheard someone saying, `Yeah, I remember
those guys.' We were booed in San Francisco when we opened for ourselves at
a Spinal Tap show. Until we did our version of the Rolling Stones' `Start Me
Up,' and then people went, `Oh, it's them.' " The Folksmen take themselves
very seriously, giving Mr. Guest the opportunity to examine the dangers of
pride. He uses the hard-earned knowledge he picked up while laboring in the
real folk world, where ingrained superiority made some of the worker ants
think they were better than others in the hill. "I was a bluegrass player
early on," he recalled, "and we looked down on all other kinds of folk
music. And that was because you had to be able to technically play, and play
fast, for bluegrass. The harmonies were quite complex. So we looked down on
the other music. But I'm sure that was going on all around."

An understanding of artists who regard their craft with entirely too much
self-importance is part of Mr. Guest's makeup. "I went to what was then the
most serious acting school in the United States," he said with a chuckle,
referring to his days at the Tisch School of the Arts at New York
University. "All the teachers had come from Carnegie-Mellon and Juilliard to
form what was this Mecca of pretension. It was just flowing with this arty
thing, from 9 in the morning until 5 at night."

"Michael and I were in class there," he recalled, "and we stuck out because
they don't like people with a sense of humor in a place like that. It was
brutal. But I got a show while I was there, the Jules Feiffer play `Little
Murders,' with Alan Arkin directing. And the teachers said: `You can't do
that. You're not ready to work. It'll take five years before you're ready.'
I said: `But I auditioned for the show. I thought that was the point of the
school.' And no one from the school came to the show." 

The ridicule of that foolish rigidity in his films does not mean that Mr.
Guest is flippant or disdainful of hard work. All of the music in "A Mighty
Wind" was performed live by the actors during the shooting; there was no lip
synching to prerecorded tracks. Several of his cast members had never played
these instruments before: Catherine O'Hara, Parker Posey and John Michael
Higgins, who have appeared in previous Guest films. And using the
instruments gave all of the actors, including Mr. Guest, a way to approach
their characters. "Having that mandolin was important," he said. "You play
the instrument the way that guy would play. That makes it even more fun,
because you have more choices as an actor."

"There was something about these characters that had more resonance," he
added. "It's harder to let them go. I'd like to write a stage musical, using
these characters for a stage show. Because if I could channel what we've
done with them for a stage show, that would be pretty exciting. That
perspective has never been seen before, and these actors could pull it off.
I don't think musical comedy has been that sophisticated over the years. The
form, as it now exists, doesn't interest me. I haven't even mentioned it to
the cast yet, because I'm still mulling it over. But that's the kind of
challenge I'd like."

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: NN: OT - Christopher Guest
   Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 09:12:25 EST
   From: Poetmuse@aol.com

> "It's why I don't - can't - watch reality TV," he said, wincing. "It
> all seems to be about suffering and embarrassment."


Thanks for posting that- his quote sums up my feelings about 'reality' tv
completely!

I had read only a blurb about this new movie, so this in depth article was
nice- makes me want to see it! :)

-Christina

----------------------------------------------------------------------


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