// Let's see: Deb Myers, Ron Beffa, Kenn Lippert, Shawn Kimbro,
// Peter Kaczmarczyk, John Hauser, John Graveling, Ed Maier...
// lots of long-time listers coming out of the woodwork this
// weekend.
// Controversy will do that for you.

// Let me suggest that you read all of today's digest before
// replying to any of these posts...you'll want to read all of
// the various responses before posting your own notes!
// Enjoy! [BP]

--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: NN: 2005 continues
    From: David T. Steere, Jr. [davidtsteere@yahoo.com]
    Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 5:25 PM

As long as several of you are mentioning great new finds for 2005, I
will chime in with:  Jude Johnstones' amazing new cd, ON A GOOD DAY, and
Cheryl Wheeler's DEFYING GRAVITY.   And--believe it or not--the just
released dvd of the "lost" 1957 tv performance of Cinderella with Julie
Andrews.

And a note to Andrew:  I'm sorry you are sad about HEARTS IN MIND and
I'm sad you didn't like it.   I can't get enough of it and have likely
listened as many times as you.   We are a diverse bunch, taste-wise,
aren't we?   Do get the Iris DeMent.  It's very moving and beautiful.

"in my own little corner"

david

--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: NN: great cover photo for Austin Chronicle
    From: josephoc@admin.stedwards.edu
    Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 8:32 PM

Believe it or not, it's rare for Nanci Griffith to get much high-profile
publicity in Austin. But she's the cover girl of this week's Austin
Chronicle. You can see the purty picture and read the article at
www.austinchronicle.com.

// Be sure to read both articles. Louis Black's "fan letter"
// to Nanci is poignant. [BP]

--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: NN: Last tour announcement!
    From: GORDON1717@aol.com
    Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 10:38 PM

Has Nanci announced that this will be her last tour yet? I only go to
her last ever tour shows, I've seen several of them now and they are
always very good and poignant. You leave with a lump in your throat
knowing that this will be your last Nanci show  ever and looking forward
so much to the next last ever Nanci show. I have to admit that at the
last, last Nanci show that I went to the announcement came as a great
relief since we sat through a show where she made excuses for her poor
singing (allergies) and sounded as though she had recently come down
with a severe form of some kind of a Texas speech defect. At one point I
thought she was channeling Jimmie Dale Gilmore and it was not a pleasant
thing. I also only buy the cd's where she recycles other peoples stuff
so I haven't heard the new one yet. I do however have several of her
past few albums, none of which I play if anyone wants them. I even own
that awful remix album, my god what was she thinking with that one?

Gordon

ps. There are some of us that still remember her last tour with the
Chieftains where she threw a fit and walked out leaving many
ticketholders feeling cheated. I swore that was the last Nanci show I
would ever go to but I've been about as consistent as she has and I've
seen her many more times since. I have a feeling though that I have paid
for my last Nanci show. (Actually I guess I've paid for it several
times).

--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: NN: Re: Last tour announcement!
    From: David [dbrons@adelphia.net]
    Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 2:55 AM


> ps. There are some of us that still remember her last tour with the
> Chieftains where she threw a fit ...

Yes, some of us Nancinetters have a long memory Gordon.

You know, I *am* having trouble remembering who that clown was the
Chieftains gave Nanci's' time to....

// *Several* folks replied with the name Ashley MacIssacs. [BP]

--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: NN: Re: Last tour announcement!
    From: klippert@nauticom.net
    Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 8:23 AM

> You know, I *am* having trouble remembering who that clown was the
> Chieftains gave Nanci's' time to....

I'm having trouble coming up with a name too.. (and trying to ignore the
temptation to just google the info out of the aether).  I do seem to
remember he was one of those Cape Bretton (sp?) fiddlers who had some
"wardrobe malfunctions" of his own.  His time in the limelight lasted
about as long as the "ding" in the intro to "Love at the Five and Dime".

-k

--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: NN: Re: Last tour announcement!
    From: Ed Maier [evmaier@SBCGLOBAL.NET]
    Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 8:35 AM

>  You know, I *am* having trouble remembering who that clown was the
>  Chieftains gave Nanci's' time to....

The clown could have been Ashley MacIsaac. Wasn't he the one who
accidentally ripped off the end of her earlobe with his fiddle bow
during the Denver (?) show? Luckily they found it, iced it down, and
sewed it back on. Damn, those were some weird shows.

OBTW, I attended her last ever roadshow on the Blue Roses tour when it
hit Austin. I don't think Nanci will ever have a last roadshow. It just
won't happen. Too much poetry and music in her blood.

Wish she'd do another album like OVOR.

Ed

--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: NN: Last tour announcement!
    From: pbl2@utah.edu
    Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 11:46 AM

Quoting Ed Maier (evmaier@sbcglobal.net>:

> OBTW, I attended her last ever roadshow on the Blue Roses tour
> when it hit Austin. I don't think Nanci will ever have a last
> roadshow. It just won't happen. Too much poetry and music in
> her blood.

Maybe Nanci is Cher's long lost sister, and the extended farewell tour
is a
genetic thing...

Paul "Waiting for Nanci's train to stop in MY town" Larsen

--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: NN: Re: Last tour announcement!
    From: Shawn Kimbro [shawn@mountainsoul.net]
   Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 10:19 AM

You know, I really like MacIsaac as a musician and
entertainer.  I think he revels in the role of
provocateur, so I can see why he'd be oil and water
with Nanci.  Nevertheless, I found his performances to
be energetic, even inspirational and went back to see
him again at a show he headlined.  I owe him for
getting me back into fiddling.  I believe he was
facing some substance abuse issues during the
Chieftains/Nanci period.  His first CD had just gone
triple-platinum in Canada and he wasn't handling the
success well.  (He was 21 years old.)  I think he
still has something of a bent toward self-destruction,
nevertheless, he's a hell of a fiddler.

-Shawn
http://www.mountainsoul.net


--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: NN: What happened at the Chieftains show?
    From: GORDON1717@aol.com
    Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 8:36 AM

Someone sent me an email offlist asking who the person was that caused
Nanci to jump ship on that Chieftains tour.

It was Ashley MacIsaac. I actually was at the show at Wolftrap when it
all apparently came to a head. She laid her guitar down on the stage to
sing a song (one has to wonder where her guitar stand was) and at the
end AM came onto the  stage with his kilt and steel toed army boots and
dealt the instrument what must  have been a death blow. It occurred to
me when Nanci laid the guitar down that  it was probably not the right
thing to do with an expensive instrument. She  apparently stormed off
the tour after accusing Ashley of stomping the guitar on  purpose. From
where I was sitting up front it was very obvious that it was an accident
and in fact Ashley could very well have hurt himself seriously if he had
tripped over it. You don't expect people to leave guitars on the floor
in  the middle of a stage. I remember at the time her management saying
that she left due to the addition of AM but they were spinning it. I
love a lot of  Nanci's music but she has lost a lot of credibility with
me. There always seems  to be an excuse floating around about why things
aren't just right. She is the  only performer of her stature that I was
ever into where that has been the case.  Why is it that people act
sympathetically towards an artist who constantly threatens to pull the
rug out from under them? I saw the article in Nashville where she
eviscerated the Bush people (I wholly agreed with her) and then stated
that she would move out of the U.S if he was re-elected. Well he's been
re-elected and I don't see any signs up outside her house in Franklin. I
guess she is slowly slipping into the "nutty aunt" persona and we will
all enjoy her wackiness but lets all agree that her credibility as an
artist has to be  called  into question.

Gosh, that was more than I intended to write.......
Gordon

--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: Credibility problem
    From: Kathleen Wallace [kwallace@walltech.com]
    Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 12:19 PM

I was under the impression that Nanci sold her house in Franklin a
couple of years ago, so anyone who is measuring Nanci's credibility by
the lack of a for sale sign on that house has their own credibility
problem to worry about.

Sorry, I'm feeling grumpy today. Too much computer stuff.

-Kathy

--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: NN: What happened at the Chieftains show?
    From: Shawn Kimbro [shawn@mountainsoul.net]
    Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 12:38 PM

Here's an article from MacIsaac's website.  He's
chronicled most everything written about him,
complimentary or not (mostly not!):

July 15, 1996

MacIsaac at centre of U.S. tour feud

HALIFAX (CP) -- Nanci Griffith shouldn't expect an
invite to Ashley MacIsaac's next ceilidh.

The American folksinger has dropped out of a U.S. tour
with The Chieftains in an apparent snit over MacIsaac,
the punkish Cape Breton fiddler who opened for both
acts.

Griffith, in a statement on her Internet web site
Friday, blamed the 21-year-old Canadian for her
departure.

"While Mr. MacIsaac's performances with his band and
with The Chieftains have complemented The Chieftains,
they have not entertained my fans," Griffith wrote.

"The addition of him on this bill has forced me and my
band to shorten our solo portion of our show and the
joint show with The Chieftains."

MacIsaac, reached in Philadelphia on the weekend, made
a half-hearted effort to tip-toe round the
controversy.

"I won't make any comment on the facts because the
facts are all totally against Nanci Griffith," he
said.

"There was a problem with someone, and The Chieftains
didn't have a problem with me, I guess."

Sheri Jones, MacIsaac's manager, said it looked early
in the week like her client would be the one leaving.

"We were told she was unhappy," Jones said of
Griffith. "We were told she wanted us to go. We waited
to hear the final outcome, which was we weren't going
anywhere."

Jones said Griffith opened their concert in Boston
last Tuesday by telling fans it would be her last date
on the tour "thanks to the efforts of Ashley
MacIsaac."

"She basically tried to force him off the tour," said
Jones, who maintains MacIsaac did nothing to
antagonize Griffith.

"She's a big star and she tried to force a little kid
from Cape Breton, who just released his first record
in America, and she was trying to get him off the
tour."

Charles Comer, publicist for The Chieftains, declined
comment on Griffith but said his band thinks the world
of the energetic MacIsaac, who wears a kilt and
workboots on stage and blends traditional Celtic music
with punk, hip-hop and jazz.

"Ashley's been doing what he's supposed to -- trying
to become a star," he said. "He's supposed to go out
there and do what he is capable of and he certainly
does. He's definitely a wonderful compliment to Cape
Breton.

"Ashley is on the tour and doing a wonderful job."

The Washington Post, in a review of one show, praised
MacIsaac for his "punkish vigor" and "terrifically
animated set.

"His music, which incorporates everything from
bagpipes to electric jazz-infected bass lines, defies
pigeonholing," the Post reviewer wrote. "Nevertheless,
he and his band constantly projected the vitality that
is so closely related to Celtic music.

"Griffith's middle set, with a five-piece band, was
more subdued and reflective in tone."

--------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: NN: What happened at the Chieftains show?
    From: NanciNetter@aol.com
    Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 11:54 AM

Folks in this group may take offense at your comments, Gordon, but I for
one appreciate your candor.

As for our aNGel, I think her heart is in the right place, those
"Petulant Diva" turns notwithstanding.  Famous folk, like the rest of us
peons, are still human with human foibles.  And while we shouldn't
expect them to be perfect, we also shouldn't have to deny their
imperfections.  Let's face it, Nanci's a cigarette-smokin',
alcohol-swiggin', judgemental, embittered artist with stuff to say,
perhaps a little less eloquently than we've been accustomed to by
her...she's also a loving, caring, compassionate person with strong
convictions...it's all part of the art of her craft and the flow of her
humanity.  Can we be with it?

David (in Oregon)


--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: NN: RE: What happened at the Chieftains show?
    From: John Graveling [kai21@dial.pipex.com]
    Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 1:20 PM

Quoting Gordon: "then stated that she would move out of the U.S if he
was re-elected. Well he's been re-elected and I don't see any signs up
outside her house in Franklin."

Well, Gordon, it would be hard to put the 'for sale' signs up outside
her house in Franklin as she moved from there to mid-town Nashville more
than 2 years ago.

John Graveling
www.jegartistmanagement.com


--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: NN: RE: RE: What happened at the Chieftains show?
    From: Kaczmarczyk, Peter A [pkaczmar@indiana.edu]
    Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 3:46 PM

I believe it was Nanci I heard say that she was convinced, after making
her statement about leaving, that moving to Ireland (or Canada or
anywhere else) would be giving up and running away, and that it was best
to stay and fight the good fight, and that she realized that was what
she needed to do.
One concedes victory to the opposition if they let the opposition drive
them away, after all anyone who fights for their vision of the country
is fighting for everyone in the country who shares their vision, if not
everyone period, and to cut bait and retreat when things aren't going
your way is cowardly, IMHO, so I'm glad she is still here to fight for
her vision.

Peter Kaczmarczyk

--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: NN: What happened at the Chieftains show?
    From: Gerard O'Connor [gpoconnor@yahoo.com]
    Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:53 PM

  Oh my goodness.

  Who would have thought that Ashley MacIsaac would
come up on this list at this juncture.  That is one of
the reasons why I hang onto this list.

  I was at the Boston show where Nanci Griffith
expressed her disdain for Ashley.  Her own show rocked
that night.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: NN: What happened at the Chieftains show?
    From: NanciNetter@aol.com
    Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 1:44 PM

((( Who would have thought that Ashley MacIsaac would come up on this
list at this juncture.  That is one of the reasons why I hang onto this
list. >>>

MacIsaac's reappearance has certainly fueled activity in this group!

((< I was at the Boston show where Nanci Griffith expressed her disdain
for Ashley.  Her own show rocked that night. >>>

Nothing like a little vinegar to fuel a creative spark! ...and then came
the abrupt end to the Sour Grapes Tour...

Maybe we should send Ashley a copy of the Digest and invite his
commentary! I'm not subscribed to the Digest, but any takers?

David (in Oregon)

// uh, no. [BP]

--------------------------------------------------------------


Subject: NN: Nanci Antics!
    From: JAMES WARD [jward39212@yahoo.com]
    Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 3:45 PM

When I first heard Nanci Griffith sing, it was the
voice that drew me in, for I knew nothing of this long
haired folk/country singer from Texas.  Over the years
I feel we have all come to know more about
Nanci...probably much more than we ever should know
about someone, other than our closest friends.  I have
seen some lousy Nanci performances (i.e. Doubledecker
Festival - Oxford, MS - April 2003) but sometimes an
artist, no matter how great they are, just cannot
click with a particular audience for whatever reason.
That I can live with!

The one thing I have read about, but have never
actually witnessed, is a disgruntled Nanci screaming
accusations and retorts to concertgoers.  As far as I
know, this could be just another "urban legend".  I
cannot believe our girl would ever act so
"unprofessional".  I do know however, that if I ever
witnessed it, I could not continue to be a fan!  I've
invested hundreds of dollars in Nanci...with all the
CD's and concert tickets I have purchased over the
years.  The lady gets my respect....and I in turn
demand hers.

James

--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: NN: Nanci Antics!
    From: Anna Kline [twentiesdecodoll@yahoo.com]
    Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 5:31 PM

Hey, I saw her at the DoubleDecker Festival that particular year too.  I
enjoyed the performance, although she did seem to be off her feed.  The
last time I'd seen her was the 1994 Flyer tour (which was amazing).  I
think I was so happy to see her again after so long, I forgave her for
not having the best performance--you could sense something was wrong.


--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: NN: Nanci Antics!
    From: John Houser [jchouser@yahoo.com]
    Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 6:01 PM

JAMES WARD wrote:
> The one thing I have read about, but have never
> actually witnessed, is a disgruntled Nanci screaming
> accusations and retorts to concertgoers. As far as
> I know, this could be just another "urban legend".

Probably not the topic to de-lurk over, but, sadly, it is more than
"urban legend". I wonder how many here have seen an "event" far too up
close and personally (*raises virtual hand*)...

.but that's not the point of my delurking...

> I do know however, that if I ever witnessed it, I
> could not continue to be a fan!

I had that feeling, too, but I remain a fan - just one without the blue
rose colored glasses. So, I buy her material, just not on the first hour
of the first day it is available. I'll see her live again, but only if
it is convenient to me - not going to drive a great distance or go out
of my way (at one point, I would have maxed out the credit cards to be
on that writers train in Canada - now, well, I can skip it...)

.in other words, at one time I was a Nanci Nut (what was the phrase we
used - stars in eyes or something like that?). Now, just a fan. Enjoy
the music and share her causes - ahem, even share her temper, so I can
"kinda" forgive such episodes...

.who knows, maybe I'll get Hearts this weekend (was going to call it
HIM, but that seems so wrong)...


--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: NN: The chimpanzee in the White House
    From: John Graveling [kai21@dial.pipex.com]
    Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 7:45 AM

Well I wonder if David Crosby has received as much widespread criticism
as the Dixie Chicks for his anti-presidential statements during the
current Crosby and Nash tour of Europe. His opening remarks, at the
start of every show, have been, "we would like to apologize for
re-electing the chimpanzee to the White House", and that was before a
note of music had been played. Later he also said "isn't it dangerous to
have a man in charge of nuclear weapons when he cannot even pronounce
the word, we apologize, but we are the other Americans". Nash retorted
that Britain had its own 'bad' leader, without actually naming ba-ba
Blair the sheep (as I call him).

I cannot imagine millions of Californian's and other Americans burning
and scrapping their cd/album collections of Crosby material
(CSN/CSNY/C-N and solo stuff). Perhaps they have seen the error of their
ways and that free speech is part of the democratic world, where we do
have a choice and we can speak up against the idiots who run our
countries.

John "just keeping y'all informed" Graveling

// hang on to your hats, folks...and please read the entire
// digest before posting your replies!!! [BP]

--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: NN: The chimpanzee in the White House
    From: Ed Maier [evmaier@sbcglobal.net]
    Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 8:53 AM

Thanks for the update, John. The key is voting; not bitching.

Respectfully,
Ed "still have *all* my Dixie Chicks" Maier

--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: NN: ... in the White House
    From: REBeffa@aol.com
    Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 11:51 AM

Thanks for the interesting update. But I suspect that those who have
already listened to "tin soldiers and Nixon's coming" might be on the
other side of the street already. DŽjˆ Vu all over again.

Ron "so what happened  to Ohio from 1970 to 2004 anyway?" Beffa


--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: NN: The chimpanzee in the White House
    From: Martin Jack [gatesuk@yahoo.com]
    Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 5:31 PM

I think musicians do have the right to speak their
mind. But that does not mean they have the authority
on historical truth.  Nanci, Crosby, and the other
remnants of the left of the 1960s are not historians
and whatever hysterical remarks that make about Bush's
supposed imperialism (a much too easy word for people
to use these days, without really knowing what it
means) should be seen for what they are: the views of
people who lived through Vietnam and who haven't
changed their worldview since that time and see
everything through the lens of disillusioned
liberalism.

If we at least had one pop singer who made a
considered judgment on the politics of today, then I
wouldn't be so cynical about the mutterings of Crosby,
Stipe, Springsteen and the like who just turn politics
into some form of soundbite pop culture, and in the
process end up sounding like some deadbeat
reactionary.

It seems to me that these singers are trying to ride
the tide of anti-Americanism, especially in my home
country the UK, which is the new cool aesthetic at the
moment. Its suddenly cool to wear the Vietcong
t-shirt, and call Bush the no. 1 terrorist without any
real justification - not that I'd call bringing
democracy to Iraq an act of terror - apart from the
fact that he's part of the Christian right and comes
from a part of the world that some of us see as some
backwater realm.

Martin

--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: NN: The chimpanzee in the White House
    From: Stephen Zeoli [szeoli@earthlink.net]
    Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 6:28 PM

> It seems to me that these singers are trying to ride
> the tide of anti-Americanism, especially in my home
> country the UK, which is the new cool aesthetic at the
> moment.

Either that, or they're right.

Stephen Zeoli
Writing & Communications
802.273.3392
szeoli@earthlink.net
www.stephenzeoli.com

--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: NN: re: Chimps
    From: Doug Brown [douggob@hotmail.com]
    Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 8:26 PM

Stephen Zeoli said,
      "Either that, or they're right."

I was trying to figure out a proper way to respond in a civil way.
appropriate to this  forum when I saw your response.  Well done.


Doug in L.A.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: NN: Chimps and Chumps question
    From: Ed Maier [evmaier@sbcglobal.net]
    Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 9:37 PM


Do artists and actors express their political views in public
because a.) they have a burning need to get something off
their chests, or b.) they think their views will influence
our views? If a), I'd rather just listen to the music I paid
to hear, and if b.), geez, how egotistical could they
possibly get?  Boys and girls, *always* think for yourselves.
And I don't care if you're a liberal, conservative, born
again christian, agnostic, or whatever. You're all part of
this little community I kinda like. I hope it stays this way.

Ed Maier

--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: NN: Chimps and Chumps question
    From: REBeffa@aol.com
    Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 11:51 PM

I suspect our humble listmaster has been scratching his head with these
latest posts wondering if we are getting too political and too far from
the music with the recent posts.

I will attempt to not stray too far, but Ed's comment expresses a common
sentiment that I have heard many times in various forms and never
understood. I do believe the answer to Ed's questions are usually both a
and b, but I certainly do not draw his conclusions, nor do I quite
understand them.

First of all, anyone expressing a public opinion wants to be heard and
their view considered. This is whether the person is the local newspaper
curmudgeon, the president of the local union of whoever, the newspaper
editor, the talk radio host and his multitude of callers, any number of
politicians and gosh, a celebrity of one sort or another, and so on.

If an actor thinks he can speak out and influence people and even
aspire to be President of the United States, well, that has been done.
If an  actor thinks he can speak out and recall the governor of
California and take his place, well, that has been done. These actors I
am sure figure they spoke from their own hearts with their views they
wanted to convey, and they figured I am  sure on using whatever respect
they had built up in their occupation to have  an aura of some sort,
authority or otherwise, that they would think people would be interested
in their opinions and value them.

All politicians, well, I'm generalizing I'm sure, but all politicians
are actors of one sort or another. They put on a face and play a role to
accomplish their goals.

SO, what is so odd that a musician, who I would bet has a better chance
of having connected to the heart of the public than an actor, would not
want to express their political views to fans and others who they might
think they have garnered the respect of, to let people know what is
important to them. When Nanci tells tales of the Gulf Coast Highway and
bluebonnets and so many other things important to her in her life, what
is the least bit surprising about expressing political views? And by
extension, I put this out for most any musical artist who has a history
of sharing what is important to them and connected with their listeners
(as opposed to an artist whose repertoire may have only consisted of
songs like "sugar, oh sugar sugar") . I have avoided  the obvious
argument trotted out from time to time that "folk music" is  political
by nature, in the vein of the history of "protest" music.

And I do think that most NN'ers are the think for yourselves types, as
opposed to well, uh, I'll shut up.

Ron "like his artists political" Beffa


--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: NN: Chimps and Chumps question
    From: Martin Jack [gatesuk@yahoo.com]
    Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 3:33 AM

I think Ed is correct. I think a lot of artists' attitudes to the public
are
1} that we need instruction because we're a bunch of sheep that need to
know the "TRUTH" and
2} that they're the ones that should do the instructing.

Personally I find out more listening to both sides of the argument
(although the Democrat side isn't actually winning these days ie Ward
Churchill) and then making up my own mind that I would
listening to Linda Ronstadt storming off stage.

Martin

--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: NN: Re: Chimps and Chumps question
    From: Tony Cox [tonycox@pacific.net.au]
    Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 7:04 AM

Ed, most of us are at the stage of our lives when we probably have made
up our minds about most things, but that doesn't mean we should close
ourselves off to the ideas of others.  Many of the artists that we
admire have something interesting to say about all sorts of things, and
if expressed through their art in an intelligent and erm...artistic way,
why shouldn't we allow ourselves to be moved or swayed by it?

As for the impact music can have on folks younger than us (an
ever-increasing majority, alas):  I think back to listening to Dylan's
Freewheelin' album at age thirteen and how it had more of an impact on
the way my ideas on social and political issues developed than anything
else in my life - including my parents' opinions.  (OK, *especially* my
parents' opinions!)  His music went beyond party politics - it made you
*feel* the effects of social injustice or the horror of war; it made you
want to spit at some of the self-serving hypocrites who hold positions
of power in our society; and beyond all that, it "kicked open the door
to our minds" (as Bruce Springsteen put it). I wouldn't call that
egotistical, Ed - I'd call it genius.  And surely you wouldn't prefer
that Nanci had never recorded "It's A Hard Life"?

All of which is admittedly in a different league to a few rock dinosaurs
currying favour with their audience with some cheap shots at Bush - the
message for musicians being that by all means keep the thought-provoking
stuff coming, but it helps if you do it eloquently - preferably through
your art.  Having said that, a Steve Earle show without a few acerbic
words of introduction to songs like 'The Revolution Starts Now' just
wouldn't be as entertaining!

Tony

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Subject: Re: NN: The chimpanzee in the White House
    From: Halesbop@aol.com
    Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 10:47 AM


I think this mainly says a lot about the respective fan bases of CSNY
and  the Dixie Chicks. The members of CSNY have always had politics in
their music, even before the first CSN album. Perhaps unintentionally
the Chicks cultivated  part of their audience (here in the States
anyway) of the mainstream "country"  crowd, generally conservative. And
these people never bothered to learn much about the band or their
politics, just bought the cds and showed up at the basketball arenas in
the their cowboy hats.

Crosby and Nash fans know what to expect, as do those of Steve Earle,
etc. who were clearly more outspoken than the Chicks about Bush but took
little heat for it.

Steve

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Subject: Re: NN: The chimpanzee in the White House
    From: Tricia9999@aol.com
    Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 10:08 AM

Different audience at the shows. Those at Crosby shows are more
sympathetic to his comments, so of course there would be no outcry. Many
at Dixie Chick shows are Bush supporters. Besides, Dixie Chicks have a
much larger audience at this point. Anyway, I am glad that David is
trying to explain to others that we are not all crazy and blind.

Tricia

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Subject: Re: NN: The chimpanzee in the White House
    From: Mildredgibson@aol.com
    Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 9:43 PM

gatesuk@yahoo.com writes:

> the views of people who lived through Vietnam and who haven't
> changed their worldview since that time and see
> everything through the lens of disillusioned liberalism.

I was born in 1975, and I share these same views. I have yet to disagree
one iota with Nanci Griffith's political stances and leanings.

Jonathan G.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: NN: Chimps and Chumps question
    From: klippert@nauticom.net
    Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 8:11 AM

When a driven, creative person feels passionately about *anything* they
often feel that they must share that feeling with others.  Whether it is
painting, poetry, music, or liturgical dance, (well maybe not the last
one) the opinions and feelings of the artist are going to come out.
What is Art if it is not a means to communicate that which cannot be
completely and accurately communicated with words: emotion,
spirituality, conviction, belief.  If these artists didn't express their
opinions I would guess they wouldn't be very good artists.

We have discussed on list previously why so many creative types tend to
be liberal.  From the absurd "because they don't have real jobs and want
government provided health care" to the practical "voice of the
oppressed", sans the flag-draped CMT good old boys standing on the back
of a Ford pickup truck and the modern corporate Contemporary Christian
music scene, there is a dearth of conservativism in the musical
community.

I think the answer is one word, I think it is the solution to many of
the world's problems, and I think there is a sorry lack of it in today's
modern society.  I'll just type it and let you ruminate on it.

Empathy.


-k


--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: NN: Chimps and Chumps question
    From: Renee Field [creneefield@msn.com]
    Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 8:44 AM

I think that like me, some artists are concerned that we get only one
side of the story in our media, and see their position of being
accessible to many, many people, as a way to somewhat counteract the
media crap that continues to fly around but speaking "the truth" as they
see it.  Let's face it, we don't get the whole story anywhere.  For
example, we can all pretty much cite the statistic of 1000+ American
soldiers dead in Iraq.  How many of us know how many Iraqi civilians
have been killed?  That number is not reported in the mainstream press,
but it is important too.  It's around 16,000 right now.

And, though it would be nice if people thought for themselves, I just
don't think that many americans are willing to get educated on issues or
candidates.  I believe that's how we got Bush re-elected.

I admire Nanci and other artists for standing up for what they believe.
Folk music especially has a long tradition of that, and although the
performers who usually speak out are of the liberal/progressive bent, I
hope I would also support someone who was on the "other" side as well if
they wanted to speak out.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: NN: Politics and artists
    From: Steve Zeoli [szeoli@earthlink.net]
    Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 8:27 AM

I am unsure why some people feel that a politician's perspective and/or
opinion is any more valid than an artist's. David Crosby and George
Bush, for instance, share a common background: both spent the '60s
stoned and avoiding the draft.

Nanci's music has been laced with politics throughout her career. And
CSNY were a genuine political force. What makes one perspective more
valid than another? And if that's the case, isn't it the same as saying
that some people's perspectives are more valid than mine? I don't accept
that.

It is fair to say that if an audience (or audience members) doesn't like
what an artist says on stage, they are free to walk out (and should get
their money back, in my opinion) and are free not to support the artist
by buying his or her music in the future. Maybe concert tickets need to
be sold with a disclaimer: "Warning! This artist has some political
views which may not be in accordance with your own."

Those of you not offended by a liberal viewpoint, might find this
article about Hollywood activists by media critic Eric Alterman
interesting:

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20041213&s=alterman

Steve Z.
 From the very blue state of Vermont

--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: more and more Nanci content
    From: ConorMG@aol.com
    Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:06:22 EST

Hey Gordon!
Are you on Nanci's new alternative publicity team?

I've just spent half a morning struggling through dozens of warring
emails and websites telling of smashed guitars, physical assault,
punk-era audience-haranguing, vendettas,  drag queen dust-ups,
warmongering chips in  the White House and the imminent revival of the
Sixties anti-war movement led by  our very own ANGry Young Woman. My
head is spinning.

I bet Gretchen Peters and Mary Gauthier, who sound like nice convent
girls, are terrified of getting stuck on that train with the Austin
Axewoman.

Nanci has never seemed so exciting, now her PR machine is working so
well. Folk and rock are almost by definition political, so it would be
worryingly unopportunistic to give in to demands  that a singer be free
to write politically but not to speak similarly at a  concert. And what
a betrayal of what you believe, to keep quiet about it when you have the
chance to influence people righteously. It must be torture for some
performers who don't dare risk losing their livelihoods.
So away with blue moons and orchestras! I look forward to a  merchandise
table full of sets of iron-on tattoos and  new T-shirts  now where's my
old one?) proclaiming The One Blade Shysters Are Back in  Town! and Kick
Butt with Nanci and the Nanci Boys! and It's a Long Way from Alcatraz to
Here -- Nanci and the Bobbysox Gang are Back! and Nanci: the Final
Armageddon Tour!

So thank you Gordon for unleashing all of this. The backlash has only
just begun.

--------------------------------------------------------------



Subject: NN: Interview with Nanci
    From: David T. Steere, Jr. [davidtsteere@yahoo.com]
    Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 5:46 PM

Just a quick note to the few who are unaware.  The new issue of NO
DEPRESSION (March-April, 2005) has a fairly long interview with our
aNGel.  It covers a wide range of topics: her art, her career, where
she's chosen to live, illness, comments on other artists, and music, of
course.

david


--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: NN: Ashley MacIsaac article
    From: Mildredgibson@aol.com
    Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 5:44 PM


There's an old expression: "There are two sides to every story."

That's my opinion on this business.  Her Rolling Stone interview
statements, like this piece, sounded reasonable and justified.  That
article can still be found on the Nanci Griffith section of that site.

And forgive me if I don't quite buy the "poor little Ashley MacIsaac
from Cape Breton" being bullied by the "big American star."

Is it just me, or are some members of the NanciNet feeling some sort of
backlash against the woman?  Some of the comments lately concerning her
or the new album, though intriguing and invigorating, sound downright
drag queen-like.

Jonathan G.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: NN: Thoughts on Hearts in Mind
    From: Mildredgibson@aol.com
    Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 12:29 AM

After waiting far too long for "HIM" and "OFSEPlus" to arrive from
Amazon, I have finally had a week or so to experience the new material.

My primary, initial feelings about "HIM":

It surprises me with every listen.  I don't think a NG album has
confused as much as this one.  Normally, my favorites pop out to me very
quickly, but with "HIM," my favorites change on a daily basis, and
several times within that same day.  A totally new experience with a NG
album.  One morning, I skip over a song I'm not so sure about, then
later in the day, it plays and I think I'm hearing one of the loveliest
melodies she's ever written.  Or vice versa.  It's been a wonderful ride
so far, so unexpected and twisty and unique.

I have come to admire the guts and chutzpah of this artist to release an
album so completely devoted to the ravages of war.  Who else of her
caliber has released as gutsy an anti-war (or "war") record as "HIM"
recently?  All the major "artists" are putting out albums with the token
"war" song, but there are few out there committing themselves so
thoroughly to this issue.  It may seem like overkill (and believe me, I
much prefer NG on the subject of romantic love), but it's dawning on me
that this woman and artist walks her talk.

I have become fascinated witnessing/hearing NG work out her complex
history concerning Vietnam.  It began with the "WM" introduction to
"Traveling Through This Part of You," and how she remarked that it took
her a long time to thank all those soldiers.  Some of this new material
feels like a kind of amends work for...something, though I can't quite
decipher it.  I find it thrilling to be part of her spiritual, mental,
and emotional process.

Without doubt, "Heart of Indochine" is a work of NG perfection.

As I get to know each song in more detail (my thoughts on them keep
changing), I'll write more specifically.

About "OFSEPlus":

After a decade, I finally got to see the video for "Late Night Grande
Hotel" and I love it.  I shed a tear or two at the momentous first play.
The concert is such a gem, on video or DVD, and because the standby mode
plays "More Than A Whisper" on one setting, hearing it lilting through
my home, I finally really heard it and (this is what I love about
brilliant artists) it suddenly opened up to me and I came to understand
it in a new way.

My best friend remarked the other night that she feels NG has been in
transition on her last few albums, and like all transitions, there are
always the moments of awkwardness and even going too far in the new
direction.  However, she thinks that, as with all transitions, she'll
come out the other side with more work of total brilliance and command
like "Flyer."  I don't make predictions  (Make a plan, watch God laugh),
but I think my best friend may be on to something.

Thanks for reading.  Loving all the posts coming through these days.

Jonathan G.


--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: NN: RE: Last Tour
    From: prive@charter.net
    Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 4:35 PM


I think those were some of the darkest times on the NanciNet, and I for
one don't want to revisit the Chieftains/MacIsaac episode. Isn't it at
that time that Nanci said her fans would understand when the time came,
and we found out later that she had been diagnosed with breast cancer?
Didn't that shed light on some of the reason for leaving? If I'm
remembering incorrectly, then let me know. If a person faces cancer, and
comes out the other side with a new perspective and a new passion, can't
we cut her some slack? I'm going to.

Molly in Oregon

--------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: NN: RE: Last Tour
    From: SierraSkyz@aol.com
    Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 6:36 PM

Molly- You are right, Nanci's breast cancer surgery and treatment
occurred within months of the premature departure for her tour that
year.  I  saw her at Wolftrap at that performance Gordon referred to and
had to  cancel my ticket a week later for the performance in Berkeley
when she left  the tour.  When we heard about her cancer diagnosis, many
of  us decided that it was a much more logical explanation to her
actions than the reported snits with tour-mates.  She has proven herself
a  generous mentor of and respectful collaborator with other musicians
many times.

Deb M.  in Phoenix

--------------------------------------------------------------

From: catfan@extremezone.com
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:23 PM
Subject: Re: NN: What happened at the Chieftains show?

On 25 Feb 2005 at 12:53, NanciNetter@aol.com wrote:
> As for our aNGel, I think her heart is in the right place, those
> "Petulant Diva" turns notwithstanding.

I think of her as a real spitfire, tough and scrappy as they come.
My kind of lady.

Mark

// and THAT, I think, is a good place to call it a day
// with this digest string! [BP]


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